78 Replies Latest reply: Oct 6, 2016 11:08 AM by gds RSS

    Anyone familiar with Evolve?

    loscuatrotulipanes Community All-Star

      I am curious if anyone's had an experience (good or bad) with http://evolvevacationrental.com/

       

      Considering lots of owners would love for an entity to fully book their rental and manage their reservations, this Evolve network, if as good as advertised seems like it could be ideal at free setup and only 10% comission.

       

      I just spoke with a couple of their representatives and they seem to be in-tuned with what we're asking for.

       

      Curious for anyone's experience...

        • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
          New Member

          I am an Evolve customer who is new to the game this yr., and didn't think 35% was reasonable being I live a half mile away, and can do the property mgmt. part. Where I need the help is in the front end (website/marketing visibility, dedicated 18 hr./day call center for prospective renter inquiries / ultimate bookings; nice website for owner mgmt. tools, insurance and legal contract already taken care of, and credit/debit processing. Yes, Evolve did all of that for 10%, and even though I went fully live just over a month ago, I already have 10 bookings continuously through mid-August. Service, knowledge and responsiveness are all 2 thumbs up!

           

          Craig

          San Diego, CA

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          • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
            loscuatrotulipanes Community All-Star

            What I'm curious about is their model. Of the bulk of services that have arisen over the past few years, I think this is the first one that just everything for the owner. It seems like there are owners who want involvement (those who use listing pages, built their own website...etc) and those who want to be totally hands-off: the latter of which Evolve seems to be going after.

             

            If anyone else has been a client of theirs, I'm very curious to hear the experience.

              • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                New Member

                There are companies that offer full property management services, including booking and upkeep and maintenance of properties. Those are the ones that charge around 35%. Then there are those, like Evolve, that are basically just booking agents.

                 

                We have been with Evolve for a little over a month now, and while we do like their service, we've had quite a few bumps along the way.

                 

                Pros of using Evolve:

                - Your rental(s) get listed on all of the major VR sites  like VRBO, Homeaway, Flipkey, Tripadvisor, etc at no cost to you, which is a BIG savings.

                - You don't have to deal with the headaches of follow-ups, chasing leads, responding in a timely manner. As I work 50+ hours a week and take care of my wife while at home, this takes a big burden off of me.

                - They're there 24 hours a day to answer questions about your rental to prospective renters.

                 

                Cons of using Evolve (from personal experience):

                - Changes to your listings are slow. Have had to remind them several times to make the changes across the many VR websites.

                - No control over who rents your VR. We used to do basic background checks of prospective renters, but they don't do anything like that.

                - Took several weeks to get our listings up on the major VR sites after we joined them. Evolve attributed it to an issue with VRBO.

                - They use a lot of 3rd party services (like VacationRentPayment), so if you have a problem, you have to contact the 3rd party directly to get it resolved. This has become a major thorn with us lately because we are trying to get payment information changed, but haven't been able to reach anyone at VRP all week. Evolve hasn't been much help other than giving us a phone number which leads to nothing but voicemail boxes. And, as of right now, we have rental money sitting in limbo because we can't get the issue resolved which doesn't help when you have bills to pay.

                 

                I am still up in the air as far as wondering whether Evolve is worth it or not. As far as the savings goes for listing your rental on all of the sites, it's definitely worth it. But, their customer service needs some work it seems, and they need more reliable 3rd party vendors.

                  • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                    New Member

                    Hi bryan.gilchrist,

                     

                    Thank you for the candid feedback.  I am sorry to hear that you've had some issues with your listings and the merchant account set-up.  I will personally look into resolving these for you.  Please don't ever hesitate to contact me directly if you need assistance with anything.  I can be reached at adam @ evolvevacationrental dot com. 

                     

                    Adam Sherry, Co-Founder/Chief Customer Officer, Evolve Vacation Rental Network

                  • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                    New Member

                    I am biased because of all the rental experiences I had, Evolve is the first and only rental company that has been efficient and cost effective, and yes, they are very hands on or not, the choice is up to the member.

                    You can use all your personal photos you want, write your own profile, list your own ammenities, list your own requirements of guest, the number of guest you accommodate,  what you permit i.e. smoking, children, crowds, parties etc.
                    You list your own bookings, block out your 'owner occupied' days, which is great.   Plus they are so cost effective,.
                    The payment plan they do for you. 
                    I am so glad I went with Evolve,   I'm telling you, the hands on option is there for those who want it.
                    If you don't, the help is there, and everyone needs help getting started.
                    I hope this helps.

                  • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                    New Member

                    I am extremely happy with Evolve. They advertise on 4 sites and and their services are well worth the 10%. After seven months of advertising in various venues and no bookings, my sister suggested I try Evolve after she read an article in the Denver Post. I have had several bookings over the summer and have found Evolve invaluable. They are always friendly and willing to help. Special thanks to Alex V.

                      • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                        sophie Senior Contributor

                        pvh,

                         

                        I see you are also part of the "evolve group". I noticed you have over 200 properties listed on vrbo all across the nation but you have NONE of these properties listed on evolve. YES, I TOOK THE TIME TO CHECK. Why would you come across as an owner with one property and in fact you have NO PROPERTIES on evolve but claim you have been using them all summer?

                         

                        It doesn't come across very well when people come on these boards with untrue statements about themselves and their properties. I see you also joined this community just to leave this message.

                          • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                            Contributor

                            Thanks for your comments Sophie.  I had the same impression after reading most of the posts here, including wondering how Evolve_Adam learned of this forum?  The only legitimate post appears to be from Bryan.  I guess we never know who is trolling the forums we participate in.  "If it sounds too good to be true..."

                            • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                              New Member

                              The 200 properties you see are listed by Evolve, PVH doesn't own them, and they are on Evolve. If you look at the bottom of any listing on VRBO, Homewaway, etc. for Evolve, they all say "Contact the Manager: Evolve Vacation Rental Network".

                               

                              My property is on Evolve at http://evolvevacationrental.com/united-states/florida/tampa-bay-area/new-port-richey/house-ski-inski-out-471. Our house is also listed on VRBO, Homeaway, Flipkey and Trip Advisor, all through Evolve as well.

                               

                              Evolve's search option is a little clunky as I had a hard time finding my house on there, but properties aren't really meant to be searched there. Evolve's site is more for homeowners/landlords.

                               

                              After getting things cleared up with Vacation Rent Payment, everything has been smooth sailing since. As PVH mentioned, we weren't able to get our house rented prior to hooking up with Evolve, but have rented it three times since, and that's only since June.

                               

                              I believe the 10% is well worth it. And Carter at Evolve has been VERY helpful and patient with us as we've had to make a lot of changes along the way.

                            • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                              New Member

                              I am familiar with Evolve and love their customer service, their professional set up, the ease to work my account as well as their assistance when and I need such.

                              They are a good company, do use Evolve as your Vacation Rental Service.

                              They are a 5 Star service and very personable. They are there for you.

                               

                              Carol Hartman. member

                            • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                              loscuatrotulipanes Community All-Star

                              All, after starting this discussion thread in June (and in the process of putting together a database of recommended resources for owners) I decided to do some due diligence and research Evolve a little more. I spoke with some of their clients, I did a test run of the service, and I also spoke with one of the founders of the company Brian. In the end, I believe it's a solid service. They basically do everything for the owner (and take a 10% fee of each booking) and from the looks of it, they generate great bookings.

                               

                              While I'm here, I'd encourage other members to be less critical/suspicious of forum threads. If you don't agree with something or if you think it sounds fake, go and investigate for yourself like Sophie. (However in Sophie's case, she didn't realize that "the 200 properties" are not PVH's properties but Evolve properties and that's what Evolve offers as a service -- doing all the listing/management activity for an owner in their own name). The Community isn't a journalistic publication: it's a forum where people should be able to express themselves freely. And it's up to you the individual to synthesize from it what you wish.

                              - M

                                • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                  gymbeau Senior Contributor

                                  >While I'm here, I'd encourage other members to be less critical/suspicious of forum threads<

                                  >The Community isn't a journalistic publication: it's a forum where people should be able to express themselves freely<

                                   

                                  As I read this thread, I see 'new' members posting, in this thread only.  Then I see posters with many post, stating their personal experiences, and offering up their perspective.  For me, it is a matter of credibility.  I am not suggesting that the new posters, that appear to come out of the woodwork to sing the praises of this new venture, are not credible, just less credible than those of owners with personal experience.

                                   

                                  I am all for members being as critical and suspicious as they feel the need to be, and express themselves however they see fit, as long as it is within community guidelines.

                                   

                                  I do think that it is 'ironical' for VRBO to be promoting property management that all but removes the owner from the process.  If we wanted such, why be on VRBO at all?  Time for a name change?

                                • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                  New Member

                                  I am a property manager and just signed up half my properties with Evolve. I'm going to compare how many bookings I get on my own vs Evolve. What I do like is that all my properties will be listed on these sites instead of just a couple and paying the large yearly fee on each listing. The 10% is coming out of our 35% managing fee. I'll keep you posted!

                                    • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                      New Member

                                      I have also had a really hard time reaching someone at Vacation Rent Payment.... Just an FYI...

                                        • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                          hill5185 Community All-Star

                                          Well it's a Sunday and I called VRP today connected with a rep right away- got an answer and corresponded with the guest having an issue. Done and done!!

                                           

                                          gymbeau

                                          "As I read this thread, I see 'new' members posting, in this thread only.  Then I see posters with many post, stating their personal experiences, and offering up their perspective.  For me, it is a matter of credibility.  I am not suggesting that the new posters, that appear to come out of the woodwork to sing the praises of this new venture, are not credible, just less credible than those of owners with personal experience."

                                           

                                          It's odd to have so many new posters jump on a thread - especially an older thread. Wouldn't it be more appropriate for evolvevrn to post in the Vendor forum? Especially given a detailed post of services, privacy policy etc. and sharing an "account executives" direct contact email. That's selling anyway you slice it.

                                           

                                          I personally have nothing against Evolve, but they are a property manager which negates the term VRBO. I'm interested in the owner side of the market not the property manager side. Heck why not invite Turn Key Vacation Rentals to the table and let them debate who provides better services. Of course Turn Key is founded by a HA exec.

                                           

                                          The whole scenario smacks of solicitation- MHO!

                                        • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                          wimbushmansion Active Contributor

                                          How can you accurately compare?  When you sign up with Evolve they take over all your Home Away, VRBO, Flip key listings.  As these are major advertising sites, the only way to compare, unless you pay for separate and additional listings on each of these in addition to evolve (expensive test!).  Am I missing something?

                                        • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                          Contributor

                                          We work very closely with Evolve Vacation Rental Network as a partner and ground support services provider in Summit County, CO. I have personally visited the Evolve offices in Denver many times and work closely with Brian and Adam and their entire staff on a regular basis and can assure you Evolve is the real deal.

                                           

                                          Brian and Adam have extensive backgrounds in the resort / vacation home industry, extremely successful track records and have assembled a team of young, talented individuals with a genuine passion for the vacation rental industry that any business owner would be envious of.

                                           

                                          I would strongly encourage any owner who is not interested in handling the advertising and booking process of their vacation rental to work with Evolve. At 10% commission with no start up costs or long term commitments its a NO BRAINER!

                                           

                                          Mike Cushing

                                          President

                                          Book by Owner - Vacation Rental Solutions

                                          www.bookbyowner.com        

                                          • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                            crescentbeach4u Community All-Star

                                            After looking at this company, I believe that they could really compete well in this industry.  I noticed that they also post your listings in VRBO, HA, Flipkey, etc for free!

                                             

                                            This got my mind to wondering!

                                            1. In my area there is a PM that has posted many listings on our beach and they are not even close to being there. HA allows it because they make more money.  This PM company saturates my area and when his customer service reps get a call they sway them away of their original place they wanted to be.   With this in mind I ought to get all of the legitimate property owners in Crescent Beach to join me and we put our 76 locations in Palm Coast via Evolve to saturate his area to create ebb and flow!
                                            2. I wonder if they allow a home owner to use multiple pipelines for promoting your property?
                                            3. Their website is very classy, clean, and they have a rate matrix that LOOKS EASY TO USE by the owner or PM.

                                             

                                            Doug

                                            • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                              New Member

                                              There were a couple of RED flags in terms of SAFETY and RISK in  the signing  process- I am an owner- I didn't sign. I think that if the company fixed issues they would be a great business to deal with.  For instance : the company

                                               

                                              1. Evolve claims that they have been in business for two years- Official Records show that the company was incorporated in 2013.  Might be a glitch in official records - I would fix that.
                                              2. They ask for FULL personal data- even getting a loan requires a SSN for verification only.  I have never submitted ALL that info to ANY of organizations- interested parties are usually buying credit reports that have your info Evolve does NOT probably. Why?
                                              3. In addition when you click on privacy link – it is
                                                empty! The same with terms of use! I read it: send us ALL your personal info at your own risk!  No legal commitment on our side!
                                              4. Evolve raised 2.6MM from VCs? - great ! Then they should have a legal advisor to draft a privacy and terms of use contract, right?

                                               

                                                     I think Evolve’s business type is a great idea, however those gaps and glitches above
                                              make a BAD impression , and that could be a really good company. I didn’t sign.

                                                • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                  evolvevrn New Member

                                                  Hi liliacan610@gmail. com,

                                                   

                                                  We appreciate your feedback, and thought we'd take the opportunity to address the concerns you listed below...

                                                   

                                                  1. Evolve Vacation Rental Network was incorporated in the state of Delaware on November 30th, 2010.  We launched the service in "beta" in August 2011, and had a "public" launch of the service in November of 2011, which was publicized in the media (see the Press page on our website for coverage).  We were required to file an Amended and Restated Certificate of Incorporation in 2013 following the recent financing event, which is why the public records you saw indicated that. I hope that clears up any confusion.
                                                  2. The request for personal information you are referring to has to do with setting up a credit card merchant account through our partner, VacationRentPayment (a division of Yapstone).  VacationRentPayment is the leading provider of credit card payment services in the vacation rental industry, and  is the same payments provider used by HomeAway.  We have integrated VacationRentPayment's technology into our sign-up process such that we never have your personal account information - it goes straight through to VacationRentPayment so that they can underwrite the merchant account to accept traveler payments.  In fact, we do not hold, nor can we access, your account information.  We've set up this process specifically to protect all parties (owners, managers and Evolve), given the sensitivity of the information being provided.
                                                  3. Thank you for noting the issue with the Privacy Policy and Terms of Use links in our extranet.  This is indeed an error, and is being fixed.  If you'd like to review either of those, you can review them on our main website by clicking on the link at the bottom of the page. 
                                                  4. You can find copies of our Terms of Use, Privacy Policy, Promotion Agreement, Rental Policy, as well as any other relevant legal documents that have been instituted throughout our website, or by requesting copies of them from an Evolve Account Executive (sales@evolvevacationrental.com). 


                                                  We hope this helps clarify some things for you.  Please don't hesitate to reach out to us directly if you have further questions or concerns -- we welcome an opportunity to work with you.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  Adam Sherry, Co-Founder/Chief Customer Officer, Evolve Vacation Rental Network

                                                • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                  janloh1 New Member

                                                  I have been very satisfied with the booking service at Evolve. However, I was very dissatisfied with the way in which my particular Success Manager handled insurance claims, Evolve booking mistakes, and other issues. He was NEVER on my side. No matter how egregious the Evolve error, he simply told me NO. NO, they would not correct the error and I had to take the financial hit; NO they could not pay for the guest damage. There was a fresh excuse every time.

                                                   

                                                  What I learned from this is that I must carefully and immediately check their calculations each and every time time and do my own very thorough inspection of the home immediately after each guest. I don't think these are unreasonable expectations, I just didn't realize how tight their policies are.

                                                   

                                                  I have asked for a new Success Manager not because of these policies, but because the one I have was not even mildly flexible or sympathetic toward us when these problem arose. His motto seems to be, "Just say NO."

                                                  • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                    ttaylor0 Active Contributor

                                                    I am trying to find a way to contact the owners of VR's who are listed with Evolve to see how they feel about Evolve. There are no homes listed with them in my town so that could be a problem with cleaners, etc. Can anyone help me. The closest town that they have clients is South Fork, Co. Thank you.

                                                      • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                        wimbushmansion Active Contributor

                                                        It is my understanding, when I spoke with an account rep last year, that they do not provide housecleaners ect.  They only handle advertising, inquiries, booking payments.  They are located in Denver, but mostly work with another forum poster (see his comments above) in Summit county, but were very willing to take our Denver listing.  I decided not to use them, only because they don't do any guest screening and are not responsible for any problems with guests that they accept.  The financial incentive for Evolve (as all commission based plans- inc. FlipKey, Airbnb, HA ect) is to BOOK- they have 0 care for caring about knowing WHO is booking and 0 responsibility if a guest breaks rules (occupancy, damage, ect). 

                                                          • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                            ttaylor0 Active Contributor

                                                            See, now that's a problem, because the rep that I talked with explicitly said and I quote, "if you are happy with your housekeeper, we will use them to clean you home."

                                                              • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                trish Active Contributor

                                                                Sounds like " if you like your Dr, you can keep your Dr."

                                                                • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                  panda Contributor

                                                                  I talked quite a bit with a rep from Evolve. He was great and we talked for a long time over many days. I did learn that Evolve is not subject to the booking fee that we the owners have added to all of our bookings.    I thought that was outrageous.  But he confirmed it. So no wonder owner bookings are down.   I was going to let them have 1 property to test how I liked their system, but at least in my area, they are strictly front end booking type thing. Yes you can keep all your own vendors you are currently using and you are totally responsible for all the same follow up, scheduling,  handling damages, and all the things that owners do.  I have larger homes and use the available non-refundable damage waiver available (property damage protection).   I think they might schedule a cleaner for you, but not much more than that. They don't follow up other than to acknowledge the cleaning was complete.   There is no one at Evolve to make sure damages are handled or the sprinkler heads damaged by the guests are even discovered let alone fixed, etc. If the guest broke something, that's up to you to discover and take care of. That is why they say you can use all your original vendors. Ultimately, you'll still be managing, following up,  and taking care of your investment.  Of course they don't screen guests. And when I asked how they would take care of guests sneaking guests in or having a glut of day visitors (a big problem for us) , the response I got was telling that they don't have a good understanding of all that is important to we owners.  The reply was something along the lines of ..well why is that an issue?  After I explained to him he checked with supervisors. Then he said they can put something in the agreement about a $200 fee or something close to that. But you'll still be dealing with the neighbors, police, and who knows what when the overcrowding happens.   Because there are no boots on the ground with this company it wouldn't work for me. It may work if you are looking for someone who wants help with bookings and doesn't want to deal with contracts. But their contract was too full of holes for my liking.

                                                                    • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                      susaninrehoboth Premier Contributor

                                                                      Strange. Maybe policy has changed.

                                                                      I've emailed Evolve in early March and asked, quote ": Does HomeAway charge the service fee to traveler if everything is handled by Evolve?"

                                                                      Response from Lauren Alvaraldo at Evolve quote "Homeaway is our trusted channel partner, so if we receive a inquiry for one of our properties through the Homeaway site, we will apply the service fee. If a traveler inquires about a property through the Evolve site, there is no service fee

                                                              • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                marina243 New Member

                                                                I am Living in Asia, and have a rental property in California,

                                                                I have been browsing for the right PM,

                                                                I think I will contact Adam..

                                                                Thank you for the reviews and tips,

                                                                 

                                                                ~~*~~

                                                                  • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                    kayzzze New Member

                                                                    We are a ground support vacation guest services company, we are seriously considering becoming a partner with Evolve. 

                                                                    It's the perfect arrangement, you rent your home to the client and we take it from there when they arrive we are there to personally greet them, check them in and out give them the rules of YOUR home. Our company makes sure the cleaning service and other services (you hire or if you want us to we will) will clean and get the property ready for your next client. We also charge a percentage of the rental fee and sometimes for special services but all in all it's a great deal for anyone who doesn't live near their vacation rental and we are on call 24/7 in the neighborhood. 

                                                                    We are anxious to learn everything we can about this company.

                                                                    Would also love comments from any of you that has used a service like ours, we are licensed bonded and although we have owned vacation rentals and used PM in the past, we are semi-retired and learning everyday...this business is our exit from the corporate world. 

                                                                    Thanks, Kay

                                                                  • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                    eem Active Contributor

                                                                    Just noticed this "Evolve" property that is listed as being in my resort complex. It is not even close to our area and that in itself is very misleading, but the thing that caught my eye was the number of words allowed in the title. I went back to check to see if the number of characters allowed in our listing titles had changed and it has not. I'm sure that surveys have shown that 60% of travelers prefer Evolve listings to have more information in their listing titles, so I guess this is another change for our benefit.

                                                                    new listing.jpg

                                                                    • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                      susaninrehoboth Premier Contributor

                                                                      I'm seriously thinking of using Evolve when my VRBO sub expires. This is now a 5 y o thread. I hope there is more  information others have to share. Those using Evolve, what do you like about them? What don't you like?

                                                                       

                                                                      Now the VRBO's new business plans are playing havoc with my rentals, I diversified. I diversified and it's helping but requires too much time. I've got lots of repeat guests during high season. If Evolve is close to problem and worry free, it's worth 10% to me for them to handle all listings and new bookings.

                                                                        • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                          greggt Active Contributor

                                                                          I understand Evolve is a Home Away partner.......so no thanks!

                                                                            • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                              horseradishtoo Contributor

                                                                              We are all known by the company we keep. Evolve is now part of Expedia. No thanks!

                                                                              • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                susaninrehoboth Premier Contributor

                                                                                Evolve is a partner with most listing services. That's one of the reasons I want to use them. They list on HA & FK sites and are starting to list on ABB, all included with the 10% commission. The commission also includes cc fees so in reality, it's 7.1% more than I'm paying VRBO now for BIN rentals That's one reason to use them.

                                                                                 

                                                                                If they are owned by Expedia, I won't list with them.  I didn't find anything on the internet to indicate Expedia owns them. http://www.expediainc.com/expedia-brands/

                                                                                If someone can find information that Expedia owns Evolve, please post it. If Expedia buys them or they raise their rates significantly, I'll stop listing with them. Their contract doesn't have time limits.

                                                                                 

                                                                                A big reason I want to use them is to stop  spending my time checking for inquiries and maintaining my listings. That used to take about an hour per week on average.  Now it's about an hour a day. Another reason is the angst caused by HA with the constant changes, changes that for me have hurt my business.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Our condo association has on-site employees to handle all but the biggest of problems that occur during a guest's stay. We pay 3% to condo association.No complaints about that. Guests rave about our employees. For 3%, it's a bargain.

                                                                                  • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                    u0999 Premier Contributor

                                                                                    I thought cc fee was on top of 10%. They may not be "owned" by expedia, but in cahoots. remember THale pushing it not so subtly. I just hate the idea of yet another middle man wanting a piece of my "pie". And with HA changes, I do not think even evolve will be a panacea. They get your 10%, but unlike on-the-ground PM they have no responsibility in keeping your rental in tip top shape. What happens if their screening is bad  and they let in someone who will mistreat the property?

                                                                                      • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                        susaninrehoboth Premier Contributor

                                                                                        I live nearby. Knock on wood, I haven't had anyone cause damage yet.  I don't consider broken glass or similar as damage. We don't provide linens. I could screw up with screening and get a bad renter.  Keep in mind we have on site maintenance & building manager. I've read the contract guests sign to rent through Evolve and it covers everything mine covers.

                                                                                        They let me block whatever dates I want so I can keep renting directly to my repeats, which is about 2/3 of high season.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        I'd like to hear from anybody that uses/used Evolve-good, bad and ugly.

                                                                                          • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                            u0999 Premier Contributor

                                                                                            It may work with your particular situation, but makes little sense in mine. Why pay someone 10% for something that I can do myself (with computer and smart phone at my fingertips).  I just do not see how they will do this better than I am doing it for 10%. Where I COULD use help is on the ground ( I am 700 mi away) from my 2 properties, but they do not offer that. responding to inquires and running sites is actually fun for me and that's the easy part. I prefer to pay for hard stuff or stuff I cannot do myself - why pay for something I can do better myself?  Also 10% of the amount that my properties are generating is a LOT of money to give to someone. So far what I have read (and spoke to them too)  their services won't be worth 10+K a year to me.

                                                                                            • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                              greggt Active Contributor

                                                                                              And not those 1st time, out of the wood work posters who love Evolve which are obviously probably fake. All one has to do is read the Evolve blogs and see that they are a HA shill singing HA praises on everything they do.

                                                                                          • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                            Senior Contributor

                                                                                            They must be doing quite well.  They have been cold calling my VR number daily for the last 11 days....

                                                                                        • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                          db.meyer Senior Contributor

                                                                                          What is the major part of the rental business you are trying to avoid?  Rather than using a company like Evole that is likely not local to your area, have you considered using a local property management company instead?  Most are willing to process the entire transaction, booking, cleaning, etc. for inquiries you send their way for only a 10% commission rather than the usual 30% commission/fee.  So, if you continue listing on HA/VRBO and forward the inquiries/bookings to the local PM company, they will handle everything from that point forward for a 10% commission.  If you want to exit the entire process, your best option is to use a local company entirely at the typical 30% fee/commission.

                                                                                        • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                          feibus Active Contributor

                                                                                          I looked at it and it seems like a great idea if I wanted to leave the paid marketing end to another vendor for what appears to be 7% of my total revenue (I assume 3% is already gone with CC fees anyway).  But they're on the same sites I'm already on, so I'm not sure they offer an advantage other than it would let me drop my listing on the larger paid sites.

                                                                                            • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                              hill5185 Community All-Star

                                                                                              First let me say this was probably one of the last posts Matt Landau participated in on this forum. Talk about a throw back lol resurrecting a thread from 2012

                                                                                               

                                                                                              Here is my main issue with Evolve

                                                                                               

                                                                                              "our vetted network of on-the-ground partners are available to handle everything from housekeeping to maintenance."

                                                                                               

                                                                                              While the concept of carefree hands off VR operations seems attractive it's not feasible. I can barely keep my hands on a network of reliable partners let alone a company states away in CO.  If something sounds too good to be true it probably is. I think the blogs reflect traveler and owner dissatisfaction with the "on the ground" experience.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              Probably because I signed up to receive newsletter /emails/blog posts I have been contacted at least twice a week for the past several weeks by Evolve. I finally said stop contacting me. In the back of my mind I'm thinking my soon to expire HA/VRBO listing has initiated a full on marketing blitz, but then how would they know?

                                                                                               

                                                                                              If an owner wants to take a more hands off approach to managing their rental Evolve is one of the solutions. For now I'll keep my job as owner/manager

                                                                                            • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                              sh5547 New Member

                                                                                              I have been self-managing my four vacation rental properties (located in three different states) on my own for the past 3 years and have had great success. Each property is grossing approx. $100K per year. However, due to a very serious and deteriorating health condition, I cannot continue to manage the properties myself.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              I have spoken with Evolve and it appears like a good option. The downside is... they cannot "take over" my current VRBO listings. They have to create new listings for my properties. This means I will lose all of the wonderful reviews I have received from past guests. On the positive side, they say they will send out a professional photographer to each property. Also, from what they have stated, their service appears to be fairly turn-key including managing the existing reservations that are on my calendar at no fee (they only take 10% on future bookings). They will use my housekeeping and maintenance people or find others to use in each market.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              I know no one else will care as much about the success of my property and/or the comfort and happiness of my guests like I will. But unfortunately, it appears I have no choice but to use a service like Evolve or Vacasa. Does anyone have information about Vacasa's fees and service in comparison to Evolve? 

                                                                                              • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                luxurygroup Contributor

                                                                                                The problem I see with them is they basically just answer emails. If there is a problem with your property you still get the calls unless you hire another property manager. So if it is worth 10% of your bookings to answer emails and send contracts then, yes, great deal. Just remember to add in the cost of someone to handle all of the calls in the middle of the night unless you want to handle that yourself.  A local PM is the best.

                                                                                                Anyone familiar with Evolve?


                                                                                                  • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                    u0999 Premier Contributor

                                                                                                    Local PMs charge 40% and run your property into the ground. No thanks.

                                                                                                      • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                        Senior Contributor

                                                                                                        Wow.  PMs must have a stranglehold in your market.

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        As a smaller property in my area, my commission would be on the higher end - usually 20% - and that doesn't include the costs of repairs, maintenance, and servicing the property, just advertising, booking, and taking payment.

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        10% is still high compared to my current cost of those things.  Even 7%, assuming I'm already incurring cc fees on some transactions as was pointed out above, would be higher.

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        40% is unreal.  I can't imagine anyone with even a small mortgage meeting carrying costs at that rate.

                                                                                                          • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                            u0999 Premier Contributor

                                                                                                            here 40% includes advertising (and many do not list on VRBO, just flipkey and their own sites),  taking bookings and scheduling cleaning. there is no meet and greet (i.e no one checks whether renter booked 10 people and brought 15)  - they just email the renter the electronic door code.  they still charge guests for cleaning, so essentially PM co does not pay for that out of the 40%. It does include cost of laundering linens (but some PMs also charge annual fee for linens to the owner). Some basics like replacing burned out bulbs and AC filters and remote batteries are supposedly included but do not hold your breath - more often than not I would show up and find half of bulbs burned out and not replaced. That does not include "specialty" bulbs i.e anything other than mid size basic bulbs. Hot tub cleaning - extra monthly fee; bug service - extra monthly fee and many times I had complaints about bugs in the house (which means that PM collected money but did not send out bug guy regularly). Any call outs like oiling the lock or explaining the renter how the TV remote works - they charge the owner - that is on TOP of 40% they charge. Any breakage guest does they will first try to charge the owner because it just "happened". See they do not want to upset the renter hoping renter will rent from the same PM next time. Only if I push back then they would charge the renter insurance.

                                                                                                            for 40% I expected stellar service - I was not getting it. repairs were overpriced and shoddy, had to be redone 2x or 3x to get it right. And by what I have heard this PM is not the worst of the bunch in  my market. I had no mortgage so we still cleared some $$ but it was a heartbreak every time to see the damage to the property. The oither thing that is hard to measure is a renter's attitude. My experience shows that when they rent from a PM, they think they are dealing with some "faceless corporation" and they tend to treat your home like a "rental car". When I started doing truly by owner, I have had lot fewer damages and breakage and mistreatment of property - I attribute it to renters communicating directly with the owner and not some PM company phone girl who never seen the property and has no idea about anything.

                                                                                                            So anyone considering going with PM - consider this: when renting thru a PM, renters are more likely to have a "rental car" or 'hotel room" attitude towards your home. They just do not view it as being some individual's prized possession, but rather a unit in corporation's "inventory".

                                                                                                              • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                luxurygroup Contributor

                                                                                                                Not sure where you are located but we charge 18~20% and take care of everything including maintenance requests and problem calls. We vet all guests and pay special attention to our clients homes. We are very selective on the homes and guests we represent. We have a full team in and out once each week and offer concierge services. Our owners do nothing but collect checks every month. Our avg owner earn 150k ~250k each year and are happy as clams. Not all PM's are the same.

                                                                                                                  • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                    Senior Contributor

                                                                                                                    That sounds like what every single PM has in their brochures.  None of them so far can produce the financials to back it up.

                                                                                                                    • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                      db.meyer Senior Contributor

                                                                                                                      You can afford to charge your owners 20% of an average gross of 200k+.  Your 20% take is 40k+ per property and is more than most owners here earn on their own!

                                                                                                                      • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                        u0999 Premier Contributor

                                                                                                                        Gatlinburg, TN. 150-250K a year would only be possible for some 8 bedroom an up mansions MAYBE. Not for 3-4 bedroom. JUST NOT POSSIBLE. Every PM says that "our owners do nothing but collect check" and I am sure there are owners that do, and then we see posts on this forum about experiences of staying at a place that was lacking in maintenance.   when owner like myself shows up at my place and I have to re-clean shower stalls because they are not cleaned to my standards, and do myriad repairs from re-tipping the pool cue sticks (which should be done by PM staff) to replacing bulbs to tightening the door locks to replacing blinds to who knows what else, 40% is too much to pay.  I just cannot believe that someone will do a better job for 20%.

                                                                                                              • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                gds Contributor

                                                                                                                I have a property in Grand Lake and I just purchased it at the end of February 2016. Signed up with Evolve in May 2016. We initially were going to do it ourselves but the thought of handling booking questions, handling deposits, collecting partial payments and then full payments sounded like a pain to us. We also knew that it would cost $500+ to list with VRBO and Homeaway. I couldn't even figure out how much it would cost to list with Airbnb. We are both working full time and didn't want to handle all of that. Since there is not time limit to contract and no up front costs, we signed with them and have been happy with the service. They charge 10% of the booking fee. There is another company that handles payments and they charge the credit card fee. I like having them handle payments because I feel they are able to detect whether the credit card is a good card or fraudulent, which is additional protection for me. Their rental rates were higher than what we would have charged so they have already paid for themselves. We still handle specific calls about the property once the guests arrive. They notify our cleaners on the reservation dates automatically. We can reserve dates anytime we want, but owner's dates do not automatically go to the cleaners. They do screen guests and we had stipulations about age and also that the driver's license must match credit card being charged. They call if they consider a request somewhat suspicious. We have been pleased with service so far. Only down side is we seem to have a disconnect with some renters thinking that the place is similar to a hotel where everything will be perfect or more refined? But that may be because of the description that they gave in the listing which we will be changing soon to have more of a homey, comfy, rustic feel. It's just nice to have emails roll in "Congrat's! You have a confirmed reservation!" and we didn't have to handle any of the details. We did have to submit check-in details and our additional rental agreement terms. The check-in information is automatically sent to the guests 2 weeks ahead of time. This is not a fake account. You can find my home in Grand Lake 4 bedroom/3bath. So if you do decide to go with Evolve. Send me a message. They do offer a $250 incentive to both referrer and new signer. It isn't perfect, but so far we have been satisfied.

                                                                                                                  • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                    u0999 Premier Contributor

                                                                                                                    So you are paying 10% to Evolve, and 3 % to credit card processor, so it is 13%?

                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                    I am reading what you are writing, and I cannot understand what is the benefit of Evolve. let me explain why I am wondering.

                                                                                                                    1. You could have charged higher prices yourself - just look at your competition and adjust accordingly, no Evolve needed for that.

                                                                                                                    2. IMO you basically outsourced the easy part of the job, and left yourself the hard part of the job. it is easy to handle bookings and payments, everything is online nowadays, including the rental agreements. Takes minutes. The hard part is scheduling the cleanings , making sure everything is done right, and handling repairs or outages should those happen - and you are still doing all that.

                                                                                                                    3. In another thread you were saying the quality of guests is not what you would like - so I guess Evolve does not brings the quality of guests that you like.

                                                                                                                    4. being with a PM for 5 years combined between 2 properties (not evolve), I can say - YES, YES, YES - definitely renters view PM-managed properties like a hotel or a "rental car", with "rental car attitude". In a 2 years running my 2 properties by myself I have not incurred as much wear and tear and damage per property as I did in any 1 year when each property was run by PM. I do think there is a psychological component of people dealing direct with the mom-and-pop owner, vs what they perceive some facelees corporation (PM - especially online virtual PM like Evolve). when they deal with "facelees corporation" they more often tend to treat our homes like "rental cars".

                                                                                                                    5. I have actually increased my bookings when I started running by myself vs PM.

                                                                                                                    6. I am remote to my properties, we are both working professionals too.

                                                                                                                    best regards, u0999

                                                                                                                      • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                        patpat922 Senior Contributor

                                                                                                                        u0999---

                                                                                                                        I could not agree with you more.  I've posted this before but I never put in so much money in my rental and made so little money as when I had a property manager.  This is so because the property manager that I hired rented out my condo and took all the money that he made--except for one or two thousand dollars that he "gave" us every year.

                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                        However, I just read that the federal government went after him and he took off for another country and took over 1/2 million dollars (of our money) with him.  The feds are now after him.  Justice can be so sweet.

                                                                                                                        • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                          gds Contributor

                                                                                                                          The benefit is:

                                                                                                                          1. It did not cost me to list the rental on VRBO, Homeaway, Flipkey, Airbnb. They also put the listing up themselves. I did not have to set it up (although I might be changing description to not sound so ostentatious/exaggerated). I feel that the listing describes a more "fancy" house than reality. I think that may be where I am ending up with people who may have higher expectations than what they experience when they get there. But in general I am glad for the guests that Evolve has booked.

                                                                                                                          2. They handle all phone calls in regards to bookings 24/7. I don't want to get the calls- Can you give me a discount? What are the amenities? Can I have a huge party at the house? How is payment made? When do you let me know about the checkin info? Little calls that may not result in a booking. Even though minor, take time to answer. Even saving 2 hours a week is worth it to me.

                                                                                                                          3. I like having a third party be my go between to weed out. I especially appreciate them being able to say no and me not having to say no. Also, when there are additional charges--people didn't follow directions and left extra trash, Evolve handled the contact with guest and also processed the charge to their credit card.

                                                                                                                          4. I like the credit card processor. I would have had to pay the processing fee anyway to Square if I did it myself. I also feel like they offer a layer of protection when they charge because they tend to first try a $1 to card and if it goes through then they can tell it is not a fraudulent card. If I charged the card, I would only find out later that it was fraudulent after card holder says it was unauthorized. I'm glad that I don't have to mess with deposits and having to return them.

                                                                                                                          5. Automatic contact to the cleaning company to inform them of the reservation which the cleaning company then automatically schedules.

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          I think that's great that you are booking better and having less wear and tear at your places. Definitely something for us to consider in the future. At this point, this works for us and we want to find another house to short term rent.

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          I should also say this is our first short-term rental, however, we have several long term rentals that we fully manage. For my husband, he could not stand the thought of managing the bookings, collecting payments, and booking cleanings for another house. This really was the tipping point for us deciding to go with them. If we didn't like them we could always cancel since they had no long term contract with us and we wouldn't have to pay to list. So far we have no desire to do what they are doing for us.

                                                                                                                           

                                                                                                                          Thank you for the information!

                                                                                                                            • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                              u0999 Premier Contributor

                                                                                                                              1. i can see cost part, but setting up listing is easy.

                                                                                                                              2. seems lately everything is going via emails / texts primarily. I rarely get late calls. and for that, I let them go to Google voice voicemail. just curious how many calls you tend to get - as I said, i have 2 properties that run 70-80% occupancy year round. If calls about "how much' (rare), i can handle. Most calls I get Evolve would not be able to handle anyway (like what is the door code, or how to use a TV remote). as far as for party, how do you KNOW that evolve will say "no"? In my experience PM (not evolve) most often says "yes" to anything with a pulse and a credit card in hand.

                                                                                                                              3. Again, not so sure they actually Do weed anything out.

                                                                                                                              4. It's that same fee whether you use their processor or square or stripe. 2.5-3%. By the way Stripe does the same thing - tries $1 first. I use Stripe integrated with ownerrez software (which I only pay per use) - works beautifully!

                                                                                                                              5. I send my cleaners a spreadsheet once a month of upcoming bookings for each property (I do not piecemeal it one by one because she has more than just my properties to clean, and would not want to get a separate email each time I get a booking - emails get lost). So about 20th-25th of every month I send the list of bookings for the next month and ask her to confirm she received it. if last minute bookings come in after that, I can just text her , and then send update. 

                                                                                                                               

                                                                                                                              I understand you have no desire to do what they are doing. I suppose I am the opposite - I do not see them as being of any use since they do not eliminate the most difficult aspect (such as coordination of repairs and cleaning), and at the same time owner gives up control in vetting the renters (which I do not want to do - having learned from my prior PM experiences). I view handling the bookings and taking payments as easy peezy part that I need the least help with. So I simply see no benefit of using them for myself. For 10% of my bookings I can buy most expensive subscriptions on all sites with thousands left over to pay myself a huge bonus for doing the job.

                                                                                                                              • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                                greggt Active Contributor

                                                                                                                                The benefit is:

                                                                                                                                1. It did not cost me to list the rental on VRBO, Homeaway, Flipkey, Airbnb. They also put the listing up themselves. I did not have to set it up (although I might be changing description to not sound so ostentatious/exaggerated). I feel that the listing describes a more "fancy" house than reality. I think that may be where I am ending up with people who may have higher expectations than what they experience when they get there. But in general I am glad for the guests that Evolve has booked.

                                                                                                                                Well yes it does cost you to list, 10% Flipkey and Airbnb are free anyway, for a PM VRBO/Homeaway are next to free.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                2. They handle all phone calls in regards to bookings 24/7. I don't want to get the calls- Can you give me a discount? What are the amenities? Can I have a huge party at the house? How is payment made? When do you let me know about the checkin info? Little calls that may not result in a booking. Even though minor, take time to answer. Even saving 2 hours a week is worth it to me.

                                                                                                                                Doubt if I spend two hours a week answering requests, phone calls are few and far between and most all questions are answered in our listing.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                3. I like having a third party be my go between to weed out. I especially appreciate them being able to say no and me not having to say no. Also, when there are additional charges--people didn't follow directions and left extra trash, Evolve handled the contact with guest and also processed the charge to their credit card.

                                                                                                                                Funny, I hardly ever have these issues, maybe because guests are dealing direct. CC are handled by HA/VRBO, PayPal is no issue if someone else.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                4. I like the credit card processor. I would have had to pay the processing fee anyway to Square if I did it myself. I also feel like they offer a layer of protection when they charge because they tend to first try a $1 to card and if it goes through then they can tell it is not a fraudulent card. If I charged the card, I would only find out later that it was fraudulent after card holder says it was unauthorized. I'm glad that I don't have to mess with deposits and having to return them.

                                                                                                                                Mountain out of mole hill issue here, 8 years of renting....never a cc or check issue.

                                                                                                                                 

                                                                                                                                5. Automatic contact to the cleaning company to inform them of the reservation which the cleaning company then automatically schedules.

                                                                                                                                I do a schedule once a month for our cleaning company, personally speak to them after each rental. I would not give this up as it is OUR property not the PM's!


                                                                                                                                I think that's great that you are booking better and having less wear and tear at your places. Definitely something for us to consider in the future. At this point, this works for us and we want to find another house to short term rent.

                                                                                                                                Don't count on less wear and tear as a PM of any feather is paid on a percentage of the rents, no head in the bed, no cash flow! Besides a guest who has to speak to the actual owner (which we speak personally to each guest) is less likely to treat your place like a motel 6.

                                                                                                                                  • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                                    gds Contributor

                                                                                                                                    Thanks for the info. Glad it is working for you! When you say next to nothing for listing on VRBO and Homeaway. As an owner how much does it cost now to list?

                                                                                                                                      • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                                        u0999 Premier Contributor

                                                                                                                                        cost me $199 per listing on VRBO. ABB, Flipkey Pay per book cost 0 to list ( the latter does not generate any bookings though) VHR (that also has TripAdvisor and Flipkey listing for the same price is $399. So my total to list on HA/VRBO, VHR/TA/Flipkey/AirBnB is $600 per property per year. 10% of my rentals would be $5,500 per property on average.  You do the math. 

                                                                                                                                          • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                                            gds Contributor

                                                                                                                                            This is what I got off of Homeaway site and I'm not sure if that includes VRBO listing too. Thanks for the info. Yes, we have done the math. Appreciate that piece of advice. This thread was asking what I thought of Evolve and I think I answered that question. For me, it works. When I own more than one perhaps I will do it myself. Right now the long term rentals are enough to manage in full.

                                                                                                                                            Annual Subscription

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            An annual subscription allows you to list a property for a full year and pay one set price for unlimited bookings.

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            Starting July 11, 2016, we will stop selling multi-level subscriptions (Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Classic) and will move to one annual subscription. The new annual subscription will be offered at $349 for properties with online bookingand $499 for properties without it. The new flat price is similar to the price of today’s Classic subscription but will now include regional and global exposure on 24 of our global sites at no extra cost.

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            Listing placement in search results is important because it can help convert to bookings—the higher, or better, your listing appears in search results, the more likely it will be seen by travelers and potentially be booked. We’ve developed a best match system that applies an algorithm to all listings based on a traveler’s search criteria (e.g., travel dates, location) and ultimately displays those listings most likely to result in a successful booking.

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            The #1 way to be successful in best match is to enable online booking for all listings and encourage travelers to book and pay through the HomeAway checkout process. Listings that offer online booking get 86% more bookings than those without it.[1]


                                                                                                                                              • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                                                u0999 Premier Contributor

                                                                                                                                                correct, I have no-level annual subscriptions, was $349, had a coupon code, ended up being $199 after coupon. My properties are online bookable.

                                                                                                                                                I understand that thread veered of course, they often do.

                                                                                                                                                The information is good, but it just reaffirmed my opinion, that for me personally, I cannot see any value in the likes of Evolve. It may work for some, understandably.

                                                                                                                                          • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                                            u0999 Premier Contributor

                                                                                                                                            Agree on all points, but esp. this " Besides a guest who has to speak to the actual owner (which we speak personally to each guest) is less likely to treat your place like a motel 6." - having dealt with damage and mistreatment caused by groups that PMs rented to, and having to compare to much gentler treatment of my properties when I rent direct. There is simply no comparison. Even though I may not speak with each guest on the phone, we correspond, many see my website, they understand that we are real people, not some faceless corporations with hundreds (if not thousands) of properties. the difference in treatment of my properties is HUGE.

                                                                                                                                      • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                                        vrdoctor Active Contributor

                                                                                                                                        Couple of questions on Evolve.  When do they notify you that you have a booking, as soon as it happens or two weeks before the check-in date?  If the guest cancels their booking does Evolve keep the proceeds or forward them to you?

                                                                                                                                          • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                                            gds Contributor

                                                                                                                                            They notify about the booking after they charge their credit card for initial payment which is right away. All transactions for payments show up on their dashboard for the rental. In the contract, I think it says no refund for rental payment if cancelled. I have not had that happen yet, so not sure how that plays out. Anyone else know from their experience?

                                                                                                                                          • Re: Anyone familiar with Evolve?
                                                                                                                                            acbrown1969 Active Contributor

                                                                                                                                            TThis is so obviously a marketing post that was created and posted by evolve to solicit business.

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            @erinn

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            i would like to request that HA consider BANNING  businesses from shill posts on this COMMUNITY board posted to solicit business. if they are allowed to post at all, I would request that they are required to be ethically transparent.

                                                                                                                                             

                                                                                                                                            Tthe law requires that advertorial content in magazines is labeled as such.