73 Replies Latest reply: Apr 4, 2018 5:22 PM by wiser-after-50 RSS

    Important updates for your subscription

    homeaway_community_manager HomeAway Employee

      Hello Everyone,


      We are always looking for ways to maximize bookings for our partners and provide a consistent booking experience for our travelers. Through tests that we’ve run online, we have found that travelers booking through HomeAway Payments convert 25% better than when presented with other payment methods. Because of this, starting mid April, HomeAway Payments will be required for processing payments for all new and renewed subscriptions, and Alternative Payments will no longer be available when you renew your subscription.

       

      If you currently list with us with a subscription and are using alternative payment methods, you will receive more information before your renewal date.

       

      We talked to many partners and reviewed all the feedback we received, and we are using that to make improvements to HomeAway Payments. We have several initiatives underway to help make it even more convenient for partners and travelers to manage bookings and payments online and will be sharing more details with you as those initiatives become available.

       

      As our most involved partners, we wanted to inform you first. Thank you for being a valued partner. We really appreciate all your time and feedback.


      Thank you,


      Erinn

      HomeAway Community Manager

        • Re: Important updates for your subscription
          hmmmm Senior Contributor

          Thanks Erin, I felt this was coming.


          I do both.


          The reason, is that PayPal is such a superior business model for owners and businesses.  In the 10 years I have used PayPal, I have not had one glitch with 6 rentals.
          No failures, no scams or any fraudulent cc's.  Also, no breeches in security like Yapstone had.

           

          Question, I do not want Yapstone to be holding my refundable security deposit, I want to be in charge of that.  How can I manage that?Send a separate invoice from my own PayPal account?


          And Yapstone's international fees are so much higher than I have with PayPal.

           

          So disappointing to see HA go down the road of AirBnB, we just want HA to be a platform all its own and not try to mimic AirBnB.

           

          Thank you though for updating us in advance.

          • Re: Important updates for your subscription
            twobitrentals CommunityAmbassador

            Erinn, I have to agree with hmmmm about the paypal platform. I have used it for years even for my long term rentals (I don't have any anymore...yahooooo! Sold them in the last 12 months)

             

            I was also breached with yapstone.

             

             

            I get information from the guest through Paypal that I don't get from yapstone..Can we at least request that they provide all the same information that paypal does. Please!! That would be a huge step in the right direction for owners.

             

            Thank you for telling us!!

            • Re: Important updates for your subscription
              hmmmm Senior Contributor

              Has HA considered using PayPal itself?

              • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                ashevillelookout Senior Contributor

                Erinn, thank you for your posting.  I am very sorry for the many homeowners out there who have been successfully using alternate payments on this platform.

                 

                When I began advertising with HomeAway, I had my own processor.  When HomeAway began to take payments through their platform, I was still able to use my own processor, even though I was now on HomeAway payments.  This was ideal for me.  I had a processor that I trusted, and HomeAway was providing a secure online payment service that the guests trusted.  Then HomeAway ended their contract with my processor and switched me to Yapstone.   

                 

                I do not trust Yapstone and never have (reference the security breach)

                They did not and do not provide me with an individual account or vendor contract.

                I cannot log into any database to review my income and expenses.

                I have no financial reports available to me, including tax reports.

                I do not have access to any transaction record in order to combat fraud or chargebacks.

                Processing time is getting longer and longer.  I have had payments delayed for as much as 10 days after the guest has paid HA.

                I receive deposit information emails that do not reconcile with my bank deposit reports.

                 

                I also do not agree with and never willingly consented to HomeAway holding the guest Damage deposit. It places me in violation of the terms and conditions of the North Carolina Vacation Rental Act. 

                  • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                    hmmmm Senior Contributor

                    Thank you Ashevillelookout for stating what I wanted to say so well.

                     

                    Those are all my issues as well and worries.

                    I cannot understand why they do not have an individual account like PayPal does.

                    Its so clear, so honest and I get my funds into my account in one day,  ONE DAY.

                     

                    I have alot of processing with 6 rentals....They worry me, rightfully.

                     

                    I would rather see a PayPal choice.  I just don't have a good feeling about putting all my eggs in Yapstone basket.


                    I read they are reaching for the stars, but that does not make them a PayPal superior product.

                    • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                      twobitrentals CommunityAmbassador

                      The deposit retention is a problem for many......for one it is for damage only, mine is a contractual compliance deposit, which includes more than just damage. In addition, at some point will HA decide who gets the funds in a dispute between owner/guest???

                      • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                        khs Contributor

                        Even though my subscription was not due to renew for months and I was still using my own cc processor, my listings were high jacked and I was forced, with no transparency, to take payment with Yapstone. So best be prepared.

                         

                        Secondly, there is only one thing Expedia/HA is interested in and that is profits. Our best owner option is to diversify and make LSI (Listing site independence) our primary goal. 

                      • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                        green_mango Active Contributor

                        I'm a big cheerleader for Alternative Payments and letting owners handle their business -  I'm pretty sure I'm a better manger of transactions than Yapstone from all the horror stories I've heard!  I love the idea mentioned above to 1st get a great system up and running, and only then make it mandatory.  Reminds me of metrics - how about *before* we rank owners based on metrics, we make sure the metrics are correct - I really don't think these requests are too grandiose. 

                         

                        On another note, seems the key to keeping APs upon renewal is to do it online - A few owners called in today and were told they were out of luck and could not renew with APs. 

                        • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                          rinaldomoon Senior Contributor

                          Well no surprise... but can it be made clear for all new HA and community members:

                           

                          Am I wrong but isn't HomeAway payments = Yapstone paymets?


                          And if so why do we always hear issues about "not us but the other"?

                           

                          Lost...

                          • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                            Senior Contributor

                            Call me a skeptic if you like.  I have the same reaction to "Payments convert 25% better" as I do to anyone using the term "Best Practices."

                             

                            By what yardstick?  Under what conditions?  At what cost?  Without answers to questions like these, the assertion means nothing.

                             

                            I wonder if "better" takes into consideration any of the criteria listed by ashevillelookout above. And I wonder how many other businesses across the country actually find that their sales go up when they reduce the number of payment options they offer their customers.  Something smells funny here.

                             

                            Sadly, it appears that HA has just given me one more reason not to renew my subscriptions.

                             

                            I wonder if AirBnB accepts PayPal...

                            • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                              gardaflat New Member

                              I think this is not a great improvement for listing based in Europe, as many guests are more familiar and prefer bank wire, which is generally at no cost in Europe, - or even cash for short stays-. Again this is a cookie cutter solution based on US listings, as my guess is there's no way "payments converts 25% better" in Europe.

                                • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                  rinaldomoon Senior Contributor

                                  I concur with gardaflat.

                                   

                                  People in the euro zone prefer direct bank transfers (SEPA)... it is free and secure!

                                   

                                  Furthermore a service called TrasnferWise is becoming increasingly popular to make international payments (UK, US to Euro zone for example). You can use your credit card, debit card or online banking. Exchange rate is super competitive (better than what your bank would quote) and they only charge something like 0.5%...

                                   

                                  Can HA/Yapstone beat that?

                                   

                                  "convert 25% better"? I would not believe such misleading stats that certainly did not come out from Europe.

                                • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                  feibus CommunityAmbassador

                                  If you noticed the wording, renewals processed before mid-April will (supposedly) keep Alt-Payments for the duration of your subscription.

                                   

                                  Something to consider.

                                    • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                      rinaldomoon Senior Contributor

                                      I would only say... "seen it, done it" and been burned and buried too many times.

                                       

                                      Too many about-faces to previous "as for now... promises"

                                       

                                      There may be a rush to "renew" followed by more endless A/B tests and bugs that seem to work against the "hold outs"

                                      • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                        Senior Contributor

                                        Anybody else notice how the timing of these things always seems to nicely coincide with the end of a quarter?  I wonder why that is?

                                          • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                            hawaiiparadise Contributor

                                            Interesting observation.

                                             

                                            I suspect the HA leadership is under quite a bit of pressure.   Expedia has publicly stated HA is unprofitable.  At the same time there is a "new" CEO  - acquiring HA wasn't his deal.  He, and the rest of the Expedia leadership team, are very likely expecting (meaning, requiring) HA to be accretive to Expedia - that is, HA must add to earnings per share and add to margins, not detract from these as they currently do.  HA and Expedia have shown they are willing to take steps to try to improve HA profitability even if that means losing some business (or maybe even a lot), as long as the expected net is a positive.

                                             

                                            As an owner/PM, it may be helpful to think through some questions:

                                            - what other steps might they take to improve HA financial performance?  Think net higher revenue or net lower costs or both.

                                            - how long might HA be given to achieve acceptable performance?

                                            - what happens if they don't meet their goal?   Does HA get wound down (I would be surprised)?  Sold?    If sold, who might buy, and what might such an owner do? 

                                            - Given your analysis of the above, what should you do for your business?

                                              • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                twomoreyears Senior Contributor

                                                hawaiiparadise -

                                                Can you provide the link where Expedia states that HA is unprofitable?  I don't recall that and would like to read it.  Were they referring to cash flow or net income? 

                                                  • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                    hawaiiparadise Contributor

                                                    Here you go, from the latest earnings call transcript, quoted from Alan Pickerill, CFO:

                                                     

                                                    "Please note that on a consolidated basis, all of these impacts will be particularly acute in Q1, where we expect adjusted EBITDA to be down significantly year-over-year, including the adjusted EBITDA losses for both HomeAway and trivago."


                                                    As you may know, "adjusted EBITDA" is a non-GAAP measure which estimates cash flow.  Companies tend to excluded "bad stuff" in this measure, hence "adjusted" and why the metric does not conform to generally accepted accounting practice (GAAP).   There is a discussion of what is excluded in the Expedia Annual Report, so you can judge for yourself whether the metric is optimistic, pessimistic or in the middle.


                                                    Note Expedia management guided operating results should improve the back end of 2018, though later commented that HA may see revenue growth pushed into 2019.   So that's management projection and tempering of expectations for the HA segment.  


                                                    If you are interested in this, I suggest to read the entire transcript.   There are a meaningful number of questions regarding HA, indicating the analysts are interested and potentially concerned.  One analyst asked rather pointedly (for a banker) whether there had been an HA-related write-down (meaning, the acquisition was no longer considered as valuable as previously, using mandated accounting analytics).   Alan didn't answer that question.




                                                     


                                                     

                                                      • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                        feibus CommunityAmbassador

                                                        From Zacks:

                                                        Revenues and profitability are likely to be negatively impacted by the shift of Easter into the second quarter this year. The company expects pressure on margin early this year due to investments in selling and marketing ahead of the travel season.

                                                        Expedia expects technology and content expense to grow slightly faster than revenues. Expedia stated that expenditure on cloud will continue through 2017 as the company keeps on transferring significant portions of products and capabilities to the cloud.  This is likely to reflect in the results of the first quarter.

                                                        The company however expects additional spending to be largely offset by lower infrastructure CapEx requirements through 2017. This therefore holds true for the soon-to-be reported quarter as well.


                                                        And Q1 has traditionally been their bad quarter, just because the bulk of travel happens during the summer months and that has been reflected in Q1 numbers in the past.


                                                        I think you may be reading too much into this.


                                                        To put your quote into context, here was the lead into it:

                                                        In terms of the shape of the year for 2018, with the seasonality of our consolidated business in mind including the seasonality of HomeAway and the back-end weighting of trivago's plan this year, we are forecasting all of our adjusted EBITDA dollar growth to come in the second half of the year. As a reminder, in our core OTA business and at HomeAway, we invest in selling and marketing to generate bookings ahead of the busy travel season with the revenue recognition occurring at the time of the stay.

                                                        This impact will be amplified by our planned investments for 2018, including accelerated supply acquisition and cloud migration among others. Please note that on a consolidated basis, all of these impacts will be particularly acute in Q1 where we expect adjusted EBITDA to be down significantly year-over-year, including the adjusted EBITDA losses for both HomeAway and Trivago. We remain intent on driving leverage and fixed cost over the long term.


                                                          • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                            hawaiiparadise Contributor

                                                            Well, in Q1 2017 HA generated an adjusted EBITDA margin of 3.2%.   For the current Q, guidance is a loss as noted on the call.   Quite a swing,  Then for other context from the call:

                                                            - comments about decelerating HA revenue growth

                                                            - comments about increasing HA expenses, with the rate of expense growth exceeding the rate of revenue growth

                                                            - an analyst asking for updated business model guidance for the acquisitions (expresses a belief the prior guidance is not longer valid/attainable) - declined to respond

                                                            - analyst asking about goodwill amortization write down - expresses similar concerns as above

                                                             

                                                            So yes, it's one data point, and maybe just a blip.  Or maybe not.   

                                                          • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                            twomoreyears Senior Contributor

                                                            hawaiiparadise -

                                                            I agree with feibus that you might be reading too much into those statements.  I do acknowledge that I have not had time to read the transcript carefully, though.  The impression I get from what I have read is that expenses (the cost of transitioning to the cloud and making the change from an advertising site to an OTA) were higher than anticipated.  I also wonder if the growth in bookings is slower than projected - and I'm guessing that would be because they probably underestimated AirBnB.


                                                            We should probably start a new thread on this if we want to continue - it's somewhat strayed off the original topic.

                                                              • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                                hawaiiparadise Contributor

                                                                yeah, these threads do have a tendency to meander.   I'm happy to move to a new tread if anyone desires.   We'll get another data point in a month or so in any case.

                                                                • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                                  Senior Contributor

                                                                  While I agree that discussions of EBITDA are drifting a bit off-topic, I think the reason EBITDA came up here is not.  Specifically, my first post noted my skepticism that the purported reason for these "important updates" was really to improve the customer experience, an assertion supposedly supported by the ever-magical "online tests" that seem to justify everything HA does, without ever providing us with any real objective evidence of the actual benefits provided.

                                                                   

                                                                  Consider that assertion along with the big-picture, across-the-business-world perspective (which is absolutely supported by years of independent, widespread evidence) that providing customers with more payment options, not fewer, tends to improve both the customer experience and sales.

                                                                   

                                                                  Couple these facts with the fact that the announcement came out just before the end of quarter, and its wording implied (but notably also did not guarantee) that an early subscription renewal might allow those with Alternative Payments to keep the option for a bit longer.  How many owners will be enticed by that to renew early, and thereby (artificially) bump up HA's performance numbers for this quarter?  Remember that this is not the first time we've seen timing like this.

                                                                   

                                                                  My point here is that I remain skeptical that both the change to subscriptions and the timing of the announcement will succeed in promoting real, long-term growth for HA.  They appear to me to be more focused on improving short-term results, at the expense of long term performance.

                                                                   

                                                                  I find it interesting that the earnings report noted that Expedia sees its revenue recognition coming in "at the time of the stay."  This may certainly be true for the hotel industry, where payment does not occur until the guest actually arrives at the hotel.  But again, this is another example of how VRs are fundamentally different from hotels; virtually all VRs require payment 30 or even 60 days prior to arrival.

                                                                   

                                                                  Clearly Expedia is struggling to make HA profitable.  This does not surprise me when I see the choices that management is making.  What if, instead of limiting traveler payment choices, instead of chasing away VR owners by making it harder for them to run their business, instead of timing announcements so as to temporarily boost earnings figures, Expedia management instead were to recognize that VRs really are fundamentally different from hotels (and always will be), that VR owners may actually know more about how to make their own VR business succeed in their local markets than Expedia does, and so therefore that accommodating the expressed needs of their "partners" is a far better long-term strategy for success in this marketplace than is trying to force those "partners" into a one-size-fits-all, hotel-centric OTA business model?

                                                                   

                                                                  If Expedia management consistently demonstrated by their actions those values, who among us VR owners would NOT want to partner with them?

                                                      • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                        victoriam Active Contributor

                                                        Many of my guests prefer to pay with a check.  A real paper check.  In the mail.  This is another nail in the coffin, driving more potential guests away.

                                                        • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                          homeaway_community_manager HomeAway Employee

                                                          Hi Everyone,

                                                           

                                                          First, thank you all for the great feedback. The person who's overseeing this change has been carefully watching this thread and is taking note of all your comments/feedback.

                                                           

                                                          Also, I want to remind all of you that it is a violation of Community Guidelines to go off topic. I respectfully request that you please keep side conversations about profitability, local taxes/laws etc that are not on topic off this thread. I will not be deleting any of the current comments, though there are many off topic, but will be removing any further off topic comments and users will be contacted individually per Discipline Guidelines.

                                                           

                                                          Thank you again for sharing your feedback, thoughts, concerns on this change.

                                                           

                                                          Erinn

                                                          HomeAway Community Manager

                                                          • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                            rinaldomoon Senior Contributor

                                                            Since yesterday, I now have "renew subscription" button in my dashboard...

                                                            • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                              green_mango Active Contributor

                                                              Among owners who already have *both* online booking and alternative payments - has anyone actually been able to renew recently?  I can't renew from my dashboard, so I called today and spoke with FIVE HomeAway customer service reps who all said pretty much the same thing & I was not able to renew with APs - the email from HA announcing the change says we have until mid-April to renew with APs, but not a single one of the reps I spoke with when I called the main number knew this and I didn't renew.... 

                                                               

                                                              From the CS agents:

                                                              1.  We are unable to renew with Alternative Payments

                                                              2.  I’m pretty certain any renewals require online payment

                                                              3.  All new renewals have to have online payments

                                                              4.  Unfortunately it won’t allow renewal unless you set up online payments

                                                                • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                                  hmmmm Senior Contributor

                                                                  Great question.  I was uncertain as well, whether I should renew all my rentals before April 15 to insure that I could keep my Alternate Payment Choices too.
                                                                  I do both, online booking with Yapstone....and alternatives.

                                                                   

                                                                  I will renew early to capture the deal, but only to capture the deal for the next year?

                                                                  I am confused as well.

                                                                  • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                                    khs Contributor

                                                                    I was forced to accept on-line payments with HA as my dashboard was blocked and in accessible until I did. There was no transparency and my subscription was not even due to renew for 6 months.

                                                                     

                                                                    Now that I can no longer take alternative payments with my own merchant account on new bookings, HA is also passing all the Yapstone cc fees and international cc fees on to me. These fees I have always passed on to my guests. No longer possible.

                                                                     

                                                                    On my first booking with their on line payment it took me hours to figure it all out and reconcile their numbers. It cost me $165 in new cc fees. To clarify, it seems I can still collect alternative payments on my bookings made prior to this change.

                                                                     

                                                                    They have made it very clear that alternative payment through their HA platform will soon or already are a thing of the past.

                                                                      • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                                        hmmmm Senior Contributor

                                                                        If you can legally collect CC fees, why cannot you not disclose this on the webpage and then add them to your quote?  They could be under the administration fee category?  HomeAway, I don't believe can or want to keep you from adding fees.

                                                                        • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                                          hmmmm Senior Contributor

                                                                          I would agree that Yapstone's platform is very confusing and not nearly as transparent as PayPal's which a kindergartner, like myself, has mastered.

                                                                          I still baffles me why Expedia would use such a unfriendly and very unbusiness savy platform such as Yapstone.


                                                                          There was a comment that a payment was cancelled with a very brief time, but Yapstone days later still deposited the funds into the account and then refunded days later.  This took the vacationer an additional 7 days to clear their payments.


                                                                          Not like that on PayPal....I beat the drop for PayPal payment processing

                                                                            • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                                              greggt Senior Contributor

                                                                              No confusion on my part why they use them. Like some other large companies they treat credit cards as a profit center. Considering Home Away does not do this themselves they put it out for bid, the low bidder unless there is some extenuating circumstances gets the business. They charge like maybe 1.8 to 2% to Home Away, Home Away pockets the difference.

                                                                              As I mentioned this is a fairly common practice.

                                                                          • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                                            green_mango Active Contributor

                                                                            Update - so it turns out for my case, I can't renew early anyway as I'm already renewed more than a year out & that's the max.  But, none of the reps I spoke to told me this - they all said APs simply weren't possible.  khs  I've had a similar banner pop up & darken my screen, but I was able to close it - did you already have OLB enabled?  You should have been able to keep APs through the end of your sub after renewing (and you're supposed to be able to renew early - just not more than a year) - perhaps homeaway_community_manager can help you fix it if you already had OLB and got tricked into HA payments?   hmmmm I have no idea how to do both Yapstone and APs, but if you have APs you should be able to renew early and be good through the end of your subscription - just do it online since calling is not a good idea... 

                                                                              • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                                                hmmmm Senior Contributor

                                                                                Thank you for the info.

                                                                                I process some on HomeAway's payment processing and some on Alternate payments that I use more often.

                                                                                I have been a PayPal cheerleader for over 10 years now.

                                                                                Again,

                                                                                Never a fraudulent CC,

                                                                                All names and addresses match

                                                                                No charge backs

                                                                                No security breaches yet.

                                                                                And a very very businesses  friendly platform as well that you can research, send invoices and the customer service is excellent.

                                                                                  • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                                                    hmmmm Senior Contributor

                                                                                    Erin, if we renew early, and have alternate payment choices along with HA payments too, can we keep our Alternate payments till the newly renewed subscription expires next year?

                                                                                    • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                                                      wiser-after-50 Contributor

                                                                                      I am a Paypal cheerleader as well.

                                                                                      I second hmmm comments.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      "Never a fraudulent CC,

                                                                                      All names and addresses match

                                                                                      No charge backs

                                                                                      No security breaches yet.

                                                                                      And a very very businesses  friendly platform as well that you can research, send invoices and the customer service is excellent."

                                                                                      Detailed financial records of transactions, monthly reporting.  Excellent customer service.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      One would think that the cheapest cc provider does not end up being a good choice for a corporation who has to maintain customer service personnel just to handle complaints, how is that cost effective? Paypal deposit s money in our account next day. As many of us are business owners, none of this makes sense.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I do not have the patience at my age to be apologizing to customers for customer service we have no control of.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      And in 10 years we have done 34,000 Paypal transactions in our other business. Not one chargeback

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Yapstone is not friendly to accepting canadians as customers, especially if they can't see your property on Google. Payoneer can't forward payments to a Caribbean bank and our bank in the Caribbean wasn't interested in entertaining them at all. They issued us a merchant account for accepting visa/\MC and Amex instead locally,with a canadian bank on the island..

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Reply

                                                                                    • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                                                      khs Contributor

                                                                                      green_mango. I did not have OLB options dialed into my listings at all prior to this happening. Unfortunately, I did not see a way to back out of the dashboard block, others figured it out. I figured it was unavoidable at some point and that eventually we all will be forced to play the games by their new rules and constant changes.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Yes, I did go to Erinn and to CS and to Yapstone after it happened. Erinn was helpful but basically I was told there was no going back to alternative payments, even though my current subscription as an alternative payment member had not yet expired.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      They did try to compensate me in a couple other small ways for the way in which I was forced into changing my payment methods.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Be aware that when you do eventually give Yapstone your banking information, it is very difficult to change, edit or deleat it! So be very mindful of this.

                                                                                        • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                                                          green_mango Active Contributor

                                                                                          Yep khs if you didn't already have OLB enabled that'll trigger HA payments and they've made it clear there's no going back.  There's a few of us who enabled OLB before HA payments were required, and so we still have APs and are supposed to be able to renew up to a year in advance before the policy change rolls out mid-April.  For what it's worth, I like OLB - I just don't care for Yapstone, although I've heard a few owners haven't had any issues with them so I hope we both get lucky moving forward

                                                                                            • Re: Important updates for your subscription
                                                                                              khs Contributor

                                                                                              Yes, i figured that was the case. I held out as long as possible on the OLB, in doing so, I was likely was not able to prolong my option for AP.

                                                                                              The verdict is still out for me with Yapstone and OLB. I do kind of feel like my business was hacked. Looking into diversifying my business stream.