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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
mike-dfv Sep 9, 2017 8:09 AM (in response to psphoto)Great questions, Pete. I've been asking them for awhile now. Certainly there should be more protections for owners from HA since, as you said, we don't know until after the payment is made. I don't need them to verify the names on the reservation and credit card are the same, though, I just need them to verify that the cardholder is the one making payment. Many times a reservation for my VR is made by parent and paid for by grandparent. Sometimes payments are split, so the deposit is paid by one party and the balance by another. Either way, as you said, I don't know until after payment is made. HA definitely needs to step up these protections.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
psphoto Sep 10, 2017 7:39 PM (in response to mike-dfv)Mike,
It would seem to me that unless you make sure the person making the reservation, and signing the agreement, is the same person who is paying.....you really have no contract. If the cardholder is making a payment, but their name and/or signature isn't on any agreement....then they could claim what they were paying for was not what they received....no?
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
mike-dfv Sep 12, 2017 8:27 AM (in response to psphoto)No. I completely understand payment coming from multiple or other sources. It is a regular occurrence for me, in fact. Even if I did see it as an issue, since I won't know until after payment is made, there's just not much I can do about it.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
feibus Sep 9, 2017 10:24 AM (in response to psphoto)This is why you need to have a rental agreement and whoever pays is one of the names on the agreement even if they're not coming.
And, no, the checkbox "I accept the rental agreement" is not going to hold up in any legal situation, so it's also likely not going to hold up in a chargeback, since the issuing bank for the guest's card is the one that has to adjudicate the chargeback and they don't know nothin' about no checkboxes.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
georgygirl1955 Sep 11, 2017 12:33 AM (in response to psphoto)I require govt id from anyone making a cc payment online.
Until we are provided adequate protections, I will continue to have agreements signed, initialed and id submitted
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
iopbeachhouse Sep 12, 2017 7:47 PM (in response to psphoto)I tell anyone booking my house that the person who pays must be the person who signs the contract and I must have a copy of their photo ID. If more than one person is paying than all paying parties must do the same they - sign my contract and provide a copy of their photo ID.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
twobitrentals Sep 13, 2017 7:02 AM (in response to psphoto)Remember that a while back though they made it so the payment could be split up between multiple people? So, in effect you could have several different credit card payments. What if just one of them decided to do a charge back. I really didn't like that idea, especially since some may not have made the reservation or signed the contract. (no signed contract, no agreement). We start getting into a really grey area when we allow for third party payments, but when I ask.....yapstone says it happens all the time. Parents paying for adult children, Grandparents paying etc. It is a bit unnerving to me in this day and age of identity theft.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
mike-dfv Sep 13, 2017 9:03 AM (in response to twobitrentals)twobitrentals wrote:
yapstone says it happens all the time. Parents paying for adult children, Grandparents paying etc.
This is a regular occurrence for me. Parent books, grandparent pays. Of course, I have no idea until after payment has been made. In the current system, there really is no way to stop it.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
twobitrentals Sep 13, 2017 1:05 PM (in response to mike-dfv)I understand Mike, but we get such little information about who is booking, then technically we are at risk for charge-backs if the person who paid is NOT the person who signed our contract. Yes, they hit the little box....but?????????????
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
psphoto Sep 13, 2017 10:07 AM (in response to twobitrentals)Yep...and most of the time things are fine.....but it's when a chargeback rears it's ugly head, we all should be aware of the reasons we won't prevail.
I'm trying to get a handle on this. It's not enough to say that it happens all the time, and there's no problem, but in the 3% of cases where there's a chargeback....accepting multiple cards, or cards that don't match the signer of the rental agreement will cause us to lose any challenge to the chargeback. I also think it's disingenuous for HA/VRBO to force everyone into online payments without clearly spelling out what the standards are to "bulletproof" the process for owners ( and renters ) in terms of accepting credit card payments. What HA/VRBO really sells is TRUST, and if they lose that, they throw away what took years to build in both the eyes of renters and owners.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
hmmmm Sep 13, 2017 12:39 PM (in response to psphoto)The name on the contract and booking must match the CC for me.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
mike-dfv Sep 14, 2017 7:59 AM (in response to hmmmm)hmmmm wrote:
The name on the contract and booking must match the CC for me.
Since you don't know until after the payment has been made, hmmmm, what do you do when you receive the deposit notification and the name doesn't match the one on the booking?
And, I'm with you, Pete and twobitrentals. A change in HA's system is definitely in order to help protect owners from fraudulent charges, especially since they require that we use their payment system. As I initially posted, I've been asking for that for quite some time.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
hmmmm Sep 14, 2017 9:28 AM (in response to mike-dfv)Hi,
I take PayPal for one, so I am in charge of the payments.
If someone else completes the PayPal invoice, other than the person who booked on HA, I contact them directly and
send them the contract as well to sign. If I could not make contact with the payor, then I would have to cancel.
The problem with HA's platform, is I cannot change or add name to the reservation name, with out cancelling and starting over.
My only consolation, is that I have called ....Jane Doe...who paid and she is on board for me.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
heartinthesmokies Jan 18, 2019 10:50 AM (in response to psphoto)I went to search and found this post. Wish I had seen it sooner.
I had a chargeback and LOST because the the lady who charged the credit card refused it saying she did not recognize the charge. She paid the booking but her daughter signed the Agreement. Yapstone sided with the guest and "there you go".
I now in my acceptance email tell the guests when signing the Agreement the name must match the credit card name.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
feibus Jan 18, 2019 11:09 AM (in response to heartinthesmokies)... at least one name must match the card name. I'm ok if there's more than one person on the agreement, as long as one of them paid.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
heartinthesmokies Jan 19, 2019 7:22 PM (in response to feibus)Feibus, what if there is a chargeback and the person who paid the payment with their CC but was not the signee of the Agreement say they are not responsible because they were not the one signing the contract and were only a guest?
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
feibus Jan 19, 2019 8:09 PM (in response to heartinthesmokies)For a chargeback, the easiest path to win is: photo ID at check-in for the person who signed the agreement and paid for the place. After that, the path gets rougher and the bank will look for a way to side with their customer (the card holder).
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
hmmmm Jan 20, 2019 2:09 PM (in response to feibus)And again why is important to have some one greet them upon arrival.
Setting up an arrival with no one there to verify, leaves one open to issues, of many kinds.
With that being said, I do understand if one cannot do that.Just one more reason to do more work upfront with ID's etc.
With PayPal I could see who paid etc. immediately after they paid. So, I know who's name needed to be on the agreement as well.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
bobbie32 Jan 18, 2019 11:25 AM (in response to heartinthesmokies)We require that the person that signs (the RA), must be the one that pays and stays. We do not allow third-party transactions. We say so on all listings and on our website. The only exception we will occasionally allow is for a married couple with same last name. But normally if that happens we require that both sign the rental agreement.
Edited for typos...
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
swlinphx Jan 18, 2019 1:22 PM (in response to psphoto)I recently posted about my $1,200 chargeback a month ago from some supposedly Brazilian guys who didn't understand any English (I now have reason to believe that is false and that I did all the extra work and translation for this booking for nothing).
I never had a chargeback in 14 years so this freaked me out., how easily someone can just claim they know nothing about a charge to their card. I do feel like asking for photo ID can be off-putting to the guest but that may be the only recourse. I am installing Ring doorbells and cams so I can prove who stayed (they claimed upon arrival that the cardholder wasn't coming until a few days later and so when these guys showed up what am I to do? I probably should have asked for cash and refunded the card.
I figured I didn't have to check for card payments made thru websites like HomeAway, TripAdvisor, AirBnB, etc., just the ones I make directly. Perhaps that too is naive. If I don't know them then I definitely will get photo ID for guests booking directly (I run and charge the card). I'm thinking with the combo of photo ID and cams I might be okay, but then people can look similar (even if not the cardholder) or different (even if they are, especially if the ID is ages old, like mine).
I'm thinking of requiring a (non-contestable) bank transfer for last-minute bookings, which the one I got scammed by was (still waiting to see if win or lose). Nowadays you can transfer from one person's bank to another with absolutely no fees on either end (using Quick Pay or Zelle, etc.). Also there are great services like low-fee TransferWise for international guests and fair/lower market currency exchange rates. I feel is would be much harder for a client to contest a charge for reservations made far in advance as the would have had ample time to report a truly illegitimate card (or report card stolen, etc.). For those cases I would not ask for photo ID. So if last-minute I will ask for photo ID if they must pay by card, or have them pay via bank transfer instead. Of course if there is plenty of time before check-in they can always mail a check or money order directly.
I don't see anyway to prevent bookings under a name different than card paid with, since we're all accepting instant bookings now and also there are many legit reasons one family member or friend may pay for another. Just wondering if I should ask for both photo ID's of booking party and the one staying, if not the booking party.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
feibus Jan 18, 2019 1:44 PM (in response to swlinphx)To survive a chargeback, you'll need:
Photo ID of the person who arrived to check in. That person MUST match one of the signatories on the rental agreement AND must match the person whose credit card was used. AND if you want to enforce a cancellation policy blocking refunds, make sure the people signing the RA initial the paragraph with the cancellation policy.
Bare minimum.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
hmmmm Jan 18, 2019 3:25 PM (in response to feibus)What kind of wording in the cancellation should be added?
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
margaret Jan 18, 2019 3:34 PM (in response to hmmmm)Have your cancellation policy clearly explained in your RA then have a space for the guest to initial the cancellation policy. The CC companies say that there has to be proof that the guest acknowledged the cancellation policy.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
feibus Jan 18, 2019 3:53 PM (in response to hmmmm)You just need to make it clear and consistent with what you put on the booking site. And have the guest initial next to it. I think we had some threads in the past year or so with sample cancellation policies and contract language.
One of the things I took from those discussions was that I needed to have a clause explaining when the owner could cancel the reservation (e.g., the house is cannot be occupied because of damage or hurricane) and that the guest would be 100% refunded for that regardless of when that happens.
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Re: Does everyone match the name used to book with the credit card name?
hmmmm Jan 20, 2019 2:06 PM (in response to feibus)Yes, I have included such language.
Thank you.
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