Skip navigation

Join the Vacation Rentals Conversation!

Get answers to all of your questions from fellow owners and travelers.

Join the CommunityX

CommunitySeek, Ask, and Share in the Vacation Rentals Community
357030 Views 1,450 Replies Latest reply: Jan 13, 2014 6:49 PM by grace300 RSS Go to original post 1 ... 74 75 76 77 78 ... 97 Previous Next
  • Contributor 78 posts since
    Mar 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,125. Apr 10, 2012 3:53 PM (in response to pinkertonagent)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    Pinkerton Agent,

     

    I have some new numbers below that might be more instructive if shown in your graphs.   It is my belief that there certainly is factual and recent historical statistical evidence supporting a concern of the Condominium segment of the real estate market to not be able to "absorb" this shock and particpate in a housing market recovery.  The March uptick is indeed strong, and it is also an anomaly when taken in context of the whole, so it is more aptly described as the data point that one should be leary of basing any predictions upon.  Taking a longer look, ie the last 6 quarters with the new March data available, one sees that the market has been trending downwards

     

    Q3'10       138   M$s

    Q4'10        125

    Q1'11        151

    Q2'11        183

    Q3'11        118

    Q4'11        95

    Q1'12       132

     

    Aside from the obvious rally in Q2 2011, and yet including it, this is downward trend.  A look back in time shows that there was a similar "rally" in Q2 of 2010, however in Q2 2009, there was no such Q2 rally.   So, what's ahead for Q2 of 2012?   We know that some buyers have stalled decisions to invest, and it is true that the magnitude of the impact is not known and people can offer their own speculations of how seriously potential buyers will consider the impacts of this legislation until the law comes down forcefully and clearly in citing this as violation of NAFTA and US Constitutional rights so that future buyers will feel safe to enter into this market.

    Below are the sections in Hawaii real estate law pertaining to Sellers disclosures, and this pending litigation is considered a "Material Fact" which my attorney and financial advisor has stated "will likely have measureable and perhaps significant adverse impact on the value" of properties which are vacation rental zoned.

     

    §508D-5 Delivery of disclosure statement to buyer;  procedures.
    No later than ten calendar days from acceptance of a  real estate purchase contract, the seller, either directly or through the  seller’s agent, shall provide the disclosure statement to the buyer.

    Upon receipt of the disclosure statement, the buyer shall have fifteen  calendar days to:

    1.Examine the disclosure statement; and
    2.Decide whether to  rescind the real estate purchase contract.

    If the buyer decides to rescind the real estate purchase contract, the buyer  shall deliver to the seller directly or through the seller’s agent within the  fifteen-day period written notification of the buyer’s decision to rescind the  real estate purchase contract. Failure to deliver the written notification to  the seller within the fifteen-day period shall be deemed an acceptance of the  disclosure statement. Any rescission made pursuant to this subsection shall be  without loss of deposits to the buyer which deposits shall be immediately  returned to the buyer.

    The seller and buyer may agree in writing to reduce or extend the time period  provided for the delivery or examination and rescission period. The form of the  receipt for the disclosure statement required by section 508D-4(2) shall provide  that the buyer shall have the right to examine the disclosure statement and to  rescind the real estate purchase contract in accordance with this section.

    [L 1994, c 214, pt of §2; am L 1996, c 161, §5]

    §508D-6 Later discovered inaccurate information.
    Prior  to closing the real estate purchase contract, a buyer who receives a disclosure  statement that fails to disclose a material fact or contains an inaccurate  assertion that directly, substantially, and adversely affects the value of the  residential real property, and who was not aware of the foregoing failure or  inaccuracy, may elect in writing to rescind the real estate purchase contract  within fifteen calendar days of the earlier to occur of:

    1.The discovery of the failure or inaccuracy; or
    2.The receipt  of an amended disclosure statement correcting the failure or inaccuracy, in the  manner provided by section 508D-5(b) or (c).

    The buyer’s right to rescind the real estate purchase contract under this  section shall not apply if the sale of the residential real property has been  recorded; provided that the buyer may pursue all additional remedies provided by  law.

    [L 1994, c 214, pt of §2; am L 1996, c 161, §6; am L 2001, c 224, §3]

    On March 10 HAR sent a news release to its members advising of the legislation in question.  It did not go so far as to tell it's members that they should disclose this in sellers disclosures but I feel it is safe to say disclosures should have been made as soon as the news release went out, and further this would include making disclosures in pre-sales agreement as well as current pending sales pre-title transfer.
    I believe that the downward trending market is not in a position to absorb further shocks of this type.   Financial conditions have improved since one year ago, including better support by the DOW and lower interest rates than one year ago, with Canadian Dollar in a sustained strong position relative to the US dollar, however the strengths have not yielded strength in this segment of the real estate market.  Rather it remains below year ago levels.     If the real estate market was in an upward trend over the past year, then perhaps it could absorb this shock, make a "correction" in price levels and then resume an upward trend, but that is not the situation at hand.
    That is my opinion, and surely there are other opinions, but I do not see a case at all for a "rosy outlook".  I think Hawaii's legislators have every reason and every responsibility in their actions and decisions relative to the adverse impact this legislation will have to our property values and it would be remiss to not make that statement to them at this time.
  • New Member 14 posts since
    Apr 2, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,126. Apr 10, 2012 6:59 AM (in response to alohaes)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    Good points. Someone may want to pen an op-ed on this, to be ready if these bills are passed this week. Buyers have a right to know, in plan language, how the legislation will affect them should they care to rent out their properties as TVRs. The potential effects that the legislation and legal suits could have on the value of the property, even if they don't want to rent it out, would also need to be disclosed and in plain language.

  • jwe Contributor 284 posts since
    Feb 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,127. Apr 10, 2012 8:45 AM (in response to cruisin9)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    We may all be about to get a lesson in US Constitutional Law and the US legal system.    I have not studied the constitution since high school and did not spend much time on it then.

     

    From what I have seen so far, most members of the Hawaiian legislature have spent even less time studying the Constitution than I have.

     

    If the HI legislature passes these bills, it will be a memorable process and an interesting expereience.  In the end the US Constitution will prevail.

  • Contributor 78 posts since
    Mar 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,128. Apr 10, 2012 10:00 AM (in response to jwe)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    Funny jwe!

     

    Brought a chuckle to me with my morning cup of joe!

     

    "From what I have seen so far, most members of the Hawaiian legislature have spent even less time studying the Constitution than I have. "

     

    Could also be woven into that Op-ed piece.

     

    After much ignoring or ignorance, we honestly could not tell which, of our ongoing written testimonies citing  concerns of NAFTA and US Constitutional violations, one TVR owner finally said:  " From what I have seen so far, most members of the Hawaiian legislature have spent even less time studying the Constitution than I have."

     

    Do I have permission to cite that or are you going to copyright it?   I think it shall be used a lot in the weeks to come.   It may make for a great t-shirt for the Maui Swap meet.

  • jwe Contributor 284 posts since
    Feb 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,129. Apr 10, 2012 9:10 AM (in response to alohaes)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    Feel free to use it.

    Of course all royalties will go to the RBOAA legal fund  :-)

  • New Member 14 posts since
    Apr 2, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,130. Apr 10, 2012 9:16 AM (in response to alohaes)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    You really have 2 Op-eds here, one on why legislators should have a passing familiarity with the Constitution and Bill of Rights, the other on what Hawaii Real Estate agents and Sellers  now need to disclose as "material facts" to Buyers.

  • Contributor 78 posts since
    Mar 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,131. Apr 10, 2012 9:31 AM (in response to off-islander)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    Off Islander,

     

    Your point about 2 Op-eds... How sad but true!

     

    In the new t-shirt line, however, I don't think the stuff about the "material facts" will be as big a seller as the "constitutional familiarity".

     

    jwe - do you think that RBOAA would like an exclusive on the t-shirts or should we sell them at Maui Swap Meet, maybe a popular shirt for the pre-election "I VOTE" series?

  • jwe Contributor 284 posts since
    Feb 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,132. Apr 10, 2012 9:40 AM (in response to alohaes)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    I hope that the legislature studied the Constitution last night and will

    pass today's quiz by not passing the bills.

  • Contributor 78 posts since
    Mar 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,133. Apr 10, 2012 3:41 PM (in response to jwe)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    Senate Passed voted in favor of HB2078, 22 votes for, 3 against.

  • msdebj Senior Contributor 1,362 posts since
    May 25, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,134. Apr 10, 2012 3:49 PM (in response to alohaes)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    That sucks

  • Contributor 78 posts since
    Mar 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,135. Apr 10, 2012 3:56 PM (in response to pinkertonagent)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    Pinkerton Agent,

     

    In addition to the 6 quarter review of the Condominium Sales' perspective, a good overlay into that is the same 6 quarters of residential home sales on Maui where the numbers are as follows:

     

    Q3'10       179   M$s

    Q4'10       125

    Q1'11       137

    Q2'11       187

    Q3'11       214

    Q4'11      168

    Q1'12       152

     

    This overlay shows that while condomium and residential home sales were in rough relation of tracking each other upto and including Q2 2011, from that point they separated with residential home sales outperforming condominium sales by $193M over a 3 quarter timeframe from July 2011 through March 2012.  Clearly the condominium segment is under distress.  I don't yet understand the factors, just see the results in the financials.

     

    It is quite shocking that the Real Estate interests (the sales side, not the PM side) have seemingly not intervened to prevent the bill to pass the senate vote this afternoon.

  • Contributor 175 posts since
    Feb 22, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,136. Apr 10, 2012 7:05 PM (in response to alohaes)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    Does anybody know what the legal battle will cost, and about how many folks might pitch-in to cover costs? 

     

    Does anybody know of a good firm that has a good track record suing the state (I found one... but didn't look into what there case was about)?

     

    I was thinking of similar issues other businesses are dealing with, who might want to join in.  I know this is a long shot, but VoIP companies can't get access to or handle numbers in the 808 area code unless they have an on-island presence.  For example Google Voice can't deal with 808 numbers due to the on-island presence restriction.  Maybe we could enlist some deep pockets like Google to take on "on-island" restraint of trade Hawaiian laws?

  • Contributor 39 posts since
    Feb 21, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,137. Apr 10, 2012 7:20 PM (in response to blackburied)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    @blackburied.  You might be getting ahead of yourself here.  I believe that

    this will have to go to the governor to sign so I would think that our next step

    is to let the governor know our thoughts and that they will be taken to court

    over this.  Unfortunately, some damage has already been done than can probably

    never be undone.  Any thoughts on this people?

     

     

  • Contributor 26 posts since
    Mar 24, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,138. Apr 10, 2012 7:25 PM (in response to cruisin9)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    Does anyone know if this was a simple yea or nay vote?

     

    Or might they have ammended the Bill as they have in prior hearing?

  • New Member 8 posts since
    Mar 15, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,139. Apr 10, 2012 8:12 PM (in response to islandadventures)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    Generally, the next step once legislation has been approved by the legislative bodies, is for the proposed legislation to be reviewed by the attorney general, for verification that the legislation is legal, and will pass court challenge.  Then, if the AG signs off on the legislation, it moves to the governor office, where the governor policy office reviews the legislation, to determine if the governor wants to sign the legislation (which is generally a political decision).  At least this is the process in the state that I reside in, and I presume it is similar in Hawaii.

1 ... 74 75 76 77 78 ... 97 Previous Next

Not a member?

JOIN THE COMMUNITY

Register Now

Actions

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (2)