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5411 Views 11 Replies Latest reply: Feb 25, 2013 8:49 AM by hkquinn RSS
codcape Contributor 70 posts since
Apr 3, 2012
Currently Being Moderated

Jan 2, 2013 11:51 AM

How do you deploy your contract?...

I normally send a physical copy, two, have the renter sign one and send it back and keep one for their records.  I once remember seeing on one of those court shows (Judge Judy) that said it needs to be a doc signed by both parties.  I assume many send an electronic version.  Thoughts??

  • crescentbeach4u Community All-Star 862 posts since
    Sep 10, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 1:10 PM (in response to codcape)
    Re: How do you deploy your contract?...

    I use www.rightsignature.com and love their service. 

  • sage Community All-Star 966 posts since
    Jul 4, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 4, 2013 2:31 PM (in response to codcape)
    Re: How do you deploy your contract?...

    I have my contract posted online as a .pdf document and send the link to the prospective guest.  The contract may be accepted electronically, or the guest may print, sign manually, and fax or mail it back to me if they do not want to use the electronic signature option.  Almost everyone chooses to sign electronically.  The signature portion is shown below.  When they click the button to complete acceptance, an email is generated and sent to me containing what they entered in the 4 fields plus the IP address from which it was sent. 

    zibb.jpg

    There are services one may use to handle the contracts, such as Doug's endorsement of rightsignature.com, but all of which I know charge for the service, while this is something I could make myself.  I doubt whether Reservation Manager's system for electronic signing produces an enforceable contract, mainly because I do not believe anyone is going to read the contract in RM.

  • scottr Contributor 204 posts since
    Aug 14, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 2, 2013 5:54 PM (in response to codcape)
    Re: How do you deploy your contract?...

    It isn't necessary to have a physical signature for a contract to be enforceble.  I have done many real estate (purchasing) transactions with docusign, and that was acceptable to my agent, title company and mortgage processing.  I have used  Reservation Manager exclusively with my HA listing.  Sage's comment is interesting, as I would have expected that HA would have vetted their process through their legal group.  It is a concern to me that guests can accept the contract without even opening it, but I purposely only include the address in the Rental Agreement PDF that guests accept through HA.  When guests call the day before their arrival asking for the address, I know they haven't read the Rental Agreement.  I have also asked HA to include code that won't let a guest accept a Rental Agreement, without first opening it.  HA does log the IP address, and my contact sheet requires that the person accepting the rental agreement, must be the same person making the payment (legal advice I got when we started with HA). 

    • sage Community All-Star 966 posts since
      Jul 4, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 4, 2013 3:15 PM (in response to scottr)
      Re: How do you deploy your contract?...

      Scott-

      I expect HA did have their legal staff review the process used for accepting the contract in RM.  Historically the rule has been that a person who chooses not to read a contract, but signs it anyway, is bound by the terms of the contract.  Courts may say that is still the law.

       

      However, in the internet age people are confronted with countless agreements which must be accepted by a click.  I have seen it estimated that an average internet user would need to spend hundreds of hours each year to read all the agreements that must be accepted.  It is commonly known that people have given up reading all those routine items that must be clicked.  And there are cases that have found that when one person knows that the other person does not know the details of a contract, the person with knowledge may not take advantage of the other person's ignorance.  So you may have conflicting legal principles to contend with.

       

      There are some factors involved with the RM process that I think may tip the decision in favor of not holding the contract against the guest who clicked the acceptance link.  First is that the link to accept the rental contract also purports to accept the HA terms of use and privacy policy (or at least it did when I tried the system about 6 months ago).  While some travelers might read the rental contract before clicking if presented separately, when it has been combined with 2 other documents that absolutely no one is going to read, the effect is to ensure that no one is going to read the rental contract.  Second, even if a traveler wanted to read the contract, it is necessary to click another link to see any part of it, unlike many click-to-agree forms that show at least the initial lines of whatever is being accepted.  A system that needlessly makes it more difficult is likely to be frowned on by judges.  And, third, there are many alternatives readily available to owners that make it much more likely the traveler will read the contract.  rightsignature.com and the other paid electronic signing services would suffice, as should my free method.

       

      HA could easily fix this by setting up RM to open a screen showing the rental contract, (and not their terms of use and privacy policy) and having the link to accept at the bottom of the page.  (Although a better practice would be to have a separate link to agree to electronic signing rather than manual, and even better yet would be to have the traveler type in a name rather just clicking a link.)

       

      Perhaps HA has web tracking data that shows the overwhelming majority of travelers actually do click to open the contract before clicking to accept.  If so, I'd like to know that, and my opinion may change.  Until then, I personally will not rely on RM to handle acceptance of my contract.  And if, in a moment of weakness or delusion, I decided to use RM to handle the acceptance, I would email a copy of my contract to the traveler before I sent the payment request.  I do recognize that this is a question on which the law may be argued either way, but I see no reason to take a chance on a system that definitely could be improved when there are better alternatives.

  • evansbnc New Member 14 posts since
    Feb 4, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 4, 2013 2:28 PM (in response to codcape)
    Re: How do you deploy your contract?...

    If you use ReservationManger, your uploaded .pdf rental agreement (contract) is included each time a guest makes an initial payment.  No need to worry about emailing it or having it saved on your website as an external link. The guest must "agree" to the terms by checking the box and then making payment. This feature has saved me a ton of time tracking down rental agreements.  If I need to update the agreement, I just upload a new version with the next payment that I setup.

     

    Brent Evans

    Hilltop Hideaway Cabin

    Pigeon Forge, TN

    • msdebj Senior Contributor 1,357 posts since
      May 25, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Jan 4, 2013 3:00 PM (in response to evansbnc)
      Re: How do you deploy your contract?...

      I email the Application/Agreement, they complete it and either email it or, if time allows mail it to me along with the Damage Deposit if they choose to pay that by check. ( I do require some form of ID from them also)

       

      I then bill their CC (using our processing firm we've used for many years) the amount due. I send out a reminder a week before the final balance and DD is due and then bill the final payment 30 days before date of arrival. Once final payment's cleared they get Directions, Check In procedures, etc.

       

      Simple for me and them, and I have the required documentation for my files.

       

      We onlly have one VR home so there's no need for me to use RM. I prefer to do all the booking and accounting myself and it's worked well for our situation.

      Msdebj

  • New Member 1 posts since
    Jan 25, 2013
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 24, 2013 9:22 PM (in response to codcape)
    Re: How do you deploy your contract?...

    I have ben getting a lot of last minute bookings with not enough time for the us mail to get contract  with signatures back and forth.Is there a way to get legal signatures on contract via. email?

  • 2barefeet Contributor 89 posts since
    Mar 15, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Feb 25, 2013 7:17 AM (in response to codcape)
    Re: How do you deploy your contract?...

    I was finding that many of my guest did not have access to a scanner or fax and I was tired of 'it's in the mail'.  I use RM and also an online doc signing (Echo Sign by Adobe).  I include the rental contract in my RM process as well as online.  I explain it's the same contract but just offers them another chance to review and ask any questions.  I found that many never opened it before I switched to the online doc.  I too received questions that were answered in the contract 'they signed'.

     

    I include a required signature line for the cancellation policy along with a signature/address/phone number I can reach you during your stay at the end of the contract.  I love that the online service will not let them return w/o all blanks complete.  I recieve notices when they have viewed it as well as a stamped url/date and copy when completed.  So far this has worked extrememly well for me.

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