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14242 Views 69 Replies Latest reply: Nov 3, 2013 11:47 AM by swlinphx RSS
New Member 8 posts since
Jul 21, 2011
Currently Being Moderated

May 9, 2012 1:29 PM

Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

I am thoroughly disgusted with PPI.  I thought I would never use them again, but thought I'd give them another shot.  Once again, they are sitting on my customer's payment and they told me it could take 10 to process into my account.  What do I need to do to get some action out of those people?  My customer is waiting for the payment to clear and deposit into my account to make sure I received the payment.  It is sitting out in never never land though.  Can anyone help me please?

  • msdebj Senior Contributor 1,358 posts since
    May 25, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 9, 2012 1:37 PM (in response to squirt2)
    Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

    Squit, I assume you meant to say 10 days to process your payment. WOW!! That's incredible, and certainly NOT the industry standard. What does your contract with PPI state regarding this?

    debj

  • New Member 3 posts since
    Dec 24, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 24, 2012 2:24 PM (in response to squirt2)
    Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

    I just got off the phone
    with PayPros customer service, James (supervisor) and Adrienne. I am
    extremely dissatisfied with the lack of concern about my first echeck
    experience.

     

     

    My VRBO client wanted to
    book using echeck for my vacation rental on
    12/05/2012.
    I created the booking for $1529.45. The client came back and told me that they
    weren't able to use echeck. So I contacted VRBO they said after doing some
    research that PayPros had forgotten to set up echeck on my account. It took two
    more days to fix this and my  VRBO client was finally able to submit
    echeck payment on
    12/12/2012. I have documentation from VRBO that this was
    supposedly set up when I called in last September.

     


    I waited and didn't see the money deposit into my account by
    12/14/2012, so I called VRBO. They got PayPros on the line, James was his
    name and he told me that it takes longer for the echeck money to be deposited
    into my account. That it can take up to 8 business days. Therefore, the money
    would not arrive in my bank account until
    12/21/2012
    or
    12/24/2012.

     

       I waited patiently and
    still did not see the money deposited as told on
    12/24/2012.
    So I called PayPros again. I got a hold of Adrienne. She verified that the
    money was pulled from my clients bank account on
    12/14/2012.
    She said that it could take 7-10 business days. Although I explained to her
    that I was told by a previous PayPros person 8 business days. She said that
    there was nothing she could do, since you use a third party person to
    processing the echecks. So I asked her to get them on the line line. She did but
    once I was added to the line, she had already discussed and all I got the your
    third party vendor was the same 7-10 business days. No one could help me.

     

    I asked Adrienne to let
    me speak to a supervisor and she eventually came back on the line and told me
    she was passing me to James. I said oh, that was the name of the supervisor I
    had spoken to previously,
    12/14/2012, who had told me 8 business days. Once James
    got on the line, he acted like he never spoke to me and told me that. (Now why
    in heavens name would I make up a random 8 days? In fact your online
    advertisement as of
    today says 3 days to process echecks.) I asked for
    him to help me he said there was nothing he could do. I asked who do I write to
    complain about this really lousy customer service. He gave me your email and
    address.

       

    I had plans for using
    this money for last minute
    Christmas shopping for my 3 boys and now I will have to
    face them
    tomorrow morning with this PayPros echeck
    explanation....that they won't even understand.

       

    I will also be forwarding
    this email to VRBO and calling them, since they are the ones that hired you to
    provide me excellent customer service.

    Michelle Jerome called me just a minute ago and basically hadn't read the email below.  Proceeded to patronize me for using echeck when if I had used my credit card  payment, she could have helped me.  Then she said if I was unhappy that I she  would be glad to cancel my account.

     

    Is this the kind of service you  provide?  Especially on Christmas Eve

    ?

    You should be  very ashamed.

     

    All I want is some help with receiving my money in time for  Christmas

    .

    Very shameful as a company. What's  wrong with you people? No heart.

  • sapphiresteve Active Contributor 506 posts since
    Dec 16, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 24, 2012 3:12 PM (in response to squirt2)
    Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

    I believe that this is known as "the float".

     

    Steve

    • New Member 3 posts since
      Dec 24, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Dec 25, 2012 11:39 AM (in response to sapphiresteve)
      Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

      Yes. PayPros told me they didn't have my money. Then one last suggestion for me to check with my bank.

       

      When I called the bank they said they didn't have any pending postings. That all ACH recheck postings come in

      Jackie

    • New Member 3 posts since
      Dec 24, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Dec 25, 2012 11:41 AM (in response to sapphiresteve)
      Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

      That all the normal processing times for an recheck is 3 bus days. So PayPros is way off from providing even adequate service.

       

      Jackie

        • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
          Aug 30, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          Dec 28, 2012 6:47 PM (in response to squirt2)
          Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

          Two things that stood out for me when reading this:

           

          1) We avoid e-checks, at least for initial deposit payment.  We actually had VRP/Yapstone turn this option off and deselected it as the preferred method in our Dashboard preferences.

           

          2) Is there a reason you are using PPI/PayPros over VRP/Yapstone?  We used to use PayPal for everything but switched to Reservation Manager with VRP and have had no issues at all in over a year.  I heard some dubious things about PPI/PayPros.  We still use PayPal for all our internal banking and income distribution and transfers however.  Is there a reason you did't choose VRP and why you didn't give them a chance before reverting to PayPal exclusively. Have you been using Reservation Manager with PPI or just them directly?

        • New Member 2 posts since
          Apr 3, 2013
          Currently Being Moderated
          Apr 3, 2013 9:57 PM (in response to squirt2)
          Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

          I have only used PayPros a couple of times but have received the run-around on every transaction.  Customer service is very bad!  Somehow I have linked my reservations manager payment processor to them.  They are charging 4.5% or more but somehow I seem to be unable to unlink them.  The new processor charges only 2.5% which is even better than PayPal but I can't seem to make the switch :-(

          • mike-dfv Community All-Star 829 posts since
            Mar 5, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated
            Apr 4, 2013 8:12 AM (in response to dlhogan)
            Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

            Give HA/VRBO customer service a call. They should be able to help.

             

            Mike

          • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
            Aug 30, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated
            Apr 4, 2013 8:45 AM (in response to dlhogan)
            Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

            Wow, 4.5% is ridiculous (especially if that is the domestic fee).  VRP (Yapstone) charges 2.5% (domestic) and 3.75% international.

             

            One thing that is confusing with VRP though is Canadian transactions.  Half the time they are charged the international fee and at other times they are not. In fact I just issued a refund to a 3-month guest.  Although they were not charged the international fee upon deposit payment, it was considered international upon refund of that same deposit (same person, same address, etc.).  This really makes it difficult to calculate in processing fees for Canadian transactions.

  • beachgal Contributor 92 posts since
    Apr 22, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 6, 2013 8:49 AM (in response to squirt2)
    Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

    I use PPI (but not through reservation manager).  My credit card charges process in 1 day, but EFT transactions don't deposit until 7-12 days usually.  It is not a problem for me, as I require the balance of funds at least 45 days prior to arrival date - but I can see where that might be frustrating for some.  I find that many guests aren't comfortable with EFT - as they don't want to give you access to their checking account.  I usually take credit card for booking fee and have guest pay balance by mailing me a check - so I really have very few fees - works for me.

    • evan Active Contributor 664 posts since
      Jan 12, 2013
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 6, 2013 10:13 AM (in response to beachgal)
      Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

      wow i was about to start using echecks versus regular checks, 7-12 days forget that. I've never had any problems with checks. i'm going to keepdoing things the old fashioned way. but when i have used pay pro's everytime the payment has been in checking account within 24 hrs

      • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
        Aug 30, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        Apr 8, 2013 12:43 PM (in response to evan)
        Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

        We don't encourage e-checks either, whether via Reservation Manager or PayPal, etc.  Their only advantage is no postage stamp, delivery time or trip to the bank.  That is nice, but the "check" still has to clear.  We require credit card payment for all deposits to book (don't hold dates without the payment) but that is refundable when they check-out, and so is the fee.  We encourage guests send a personal check, money order or cashier's check for the full rental since the amount is more (therefore the fee would be more) and they don't get that back.  Many just want the convenience of paying via credit card for the rental or are from Canada or some place it is harder to draw in USD so they opt for a credit card.  Either way, we always provide a way for them to recover the fee.

    • beachbumz Active Contributor 542 posts since
      Jan 21, 2013
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 6, 2013 11:34 AM (in response to beachgal)
      Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

      Wow - did not realize that. They advertise up to 3 business days! I'm starting to get alot of people saying I want credit cards for all transactions and specifically Reservation Manager. They say VRBO is advertising it as safer. So NOW I'm having to explain why I use PPI instead of Reservations Manager and WHY it's just as safe. Are you guys getting this and how do you explain (or if you explain) why you use PPI? I'm about at the point of saying, "I can use and darned vendor I want and I'm not explaining my policy with you."

      • beachgal Contributor 92 posts since
        Apr 22, 2012
        Currently Being Moderated
        Apr 6, 2013 11:45 AM (in response to beachbumz)
        Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

        beachbumz - I haven't really had many ask to use RM - while I do have it as an option on my listing (to get the badge), I don't use it and have not been requrested to by a guest.  Guest may not even realize I'm not using it, or they don't really care?  I prefer my own system.  As far as credit cards, I allow them for the initial deposit, but discourage use for the balance by waiving an $80 booking fee for cash and checks.  I ask for credit card or EFT for the deposit but after more thought, I may just eliminate the EFT option.  PPI charges me $5 for EFT and 2.5% for credit cards.  My deposit is $280 to hold dates - so $5 EFT per booking or $7 for credit card and I get my money within 24 hours.

        • beachbumz Active Contributor 542 posts since
          Jan 21, 2013
          Currently Being Moderated
          Apr 7, 2013 5:59 AM (in response to beachgal)
          Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

          Hi beachgal, How do you handle the $80 booking fee? Do you have it as part of the original fee, then discount it? In this scenerio, I'm concerned if it's part of the original fee, it artifically inflates the pricing. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

          • beachgal Contributor 92 posts since
            Apr 22, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            Apr 8, 2013 7:11 AM (in response to beachbumz)
            Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

            beachbumz.  I put on my listing and my website my weekly rates.  Below that I state that 12% tax and $95 departure fee added.  I also state $80 booking fee added to rate (waived for cash or check payments).  The vast majority of my guests pay the deposit by credit card and then mail me a check for the balance (some pay the balance by EFT).  This way my rates aren't inflated by the $80 fee, but it is clearly stated.  So if someone decides to pay the balance with credit card I just add the $80 booking fee and it doesn't cost me anything.

            • beachbumz Active Contributor 542 posts since
              Jan 21, 2013
              Currently Being Moderated
              Apr 8, 2013 3:02 PM (in response to beachgal)
              Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

              So you have a statement that says, I charge a $1000 a week, plus %12 and $95 departure fee (cleaning). So you then say an additional $80 booking fee is added to the rate, which is waived for cash or check payments. So if I were a guest booking online, I'd still see the $1000 as the base, then the $85 noted as a separate cost? In other words not $1085 plus tax and departure cleaning. My concern if that that if the $85 is on the front end, built into the initial price, no one would touch my initial pricing. I bundle everything, with the exception of the CC fees. It's in my contract, in my reservation confirmation, etc., that the guest pays all cc and wire transfer fees, but I'm still getting guests saying "I know I told you I'd pay cash, but now I'm not, and you pay the fees or else!" I'm trying how to figure out how to say, "Fine" politely.

      • carol Senior Contributor 2,152 posts since
        Dec 10, 2010
        Currently Being Moderated
        Apr 6, 2013 12:18 PM (in response to beachbumz)
        Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

        I had one a few weeks ago who wanted RM for the same reason -- he even quoted the "safest way to pay" slogan.  I explained that using a credit card would cost him 2-3% more -- that did not make him happy.  He then said he needed to use a credit card because he might have to cancel just before check in!!!  Needless to say, I explained my house was probably not a good fit and sent him packing.

      • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
        Aug 30, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        Apr 6, 2013 3:56 PM (in response to beachbumz)
        Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

        Just out of curiosity beachgal (or anyone else that knows), what is the advantage of using PPI directly vs. using either themn or VRP with Reservation Manager?  Don't you have to pay some kind of monthly fee with PPI/PayPros?  Do they offer refunds with no deadline and refund the fee too?

        • sapphiresteve Active Contributor 506 posts since
          Dec 16, 2010
          Currently Being Moderated
          Apr 6, 2013 4:02 PM (in response to swlinphx)
          Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

          I don't know about others, but when I started with PPI/PayPros, it was endorsed by VRBO/HA and was the best I could find. I pay a $24.95 monthly fee in addition to a percentage. My biggest complaint is that I can't understand the statement that they send every month, but I have some minor complaints as well.

           

          Steve

          • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
            Aug 30, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated
            Apr 7, 2013 4:21 AM (in response to sapphiresteve)
            Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

            SapphireSteve, may I ask what makes you continue with them since they are charging you a sizeable monthly fee in addition to processing charges?  VRP/Yapstone has the same processing fee with no monthly charges and unlimited returns, including return of fee.  Even PayPal would be cheaper than paying $24.95/month.

          • beachbumz Active Contributor 542 posts since
            Jan 21, 2013
            Currently Being Moderated
            Apr 7, 2013 6:04 AM (in response to sapphiresteve)
            Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

            steve - unless I'm really missing something, I don't think there is a monthly fee if you sign up through VRBO. There are two ways you can sign up: through their website, or through a portal with VRBO. To the best of my knowledge, this is the case. I really hope sage and evan weigh in. I received some information through them, so they might be able to provided some added info that I don't have.

        • beachgal Contributor 92 posts since
          Apr 22, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          Apr 8, 2013 7:15 AM (in response to swlinphx)
          Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

          swlinphx - First I love reading your posts - they are so educational (and sometimes amusing). With PPI I haven't had to pay a monthly fee, just 2.5% for all cards and $4.99 for EFT transactions.  That being said, starting with this months' statement VISA has now added a $7 per month "Fixed Acquirer Network Fee (FANF)" and this is billed on my PayPros (PPI) statement.  PPI says this is a pass-thru fee from VISA - has everyone else gotten this fee with other service providers?

          • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
            Aug 30, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated
            Apr 8, 2013 12:42 PM (in response to beachgal)
            Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

            Hi beachgal...  first off, thanks for even reading my posts, LOL.

             

            I had heard about this monthly Visa fee months ago and had inquired, but it turned out neither PayPal nor VRP/Yapstone whom I use with Reservation Manager are passing it on to the customer, which I was relieved to know.  It turns out it is up to the processing company whether to pass along the fee, and I guess PayPros (PPI) decided to.

             

            A couple questions regarding your response to beachbumz:  What is a "departure fee"; is that basically what you call your cleaning fee?  Also, how or why did you come up with the amount of $80?

            • beachgal Contributor 92 posts since
              Apr 22, 2012
              Currently Being Moderated
              Apr 8, 2013 1:15 PM (in response to swlinphx)
              Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

              swlinphx: The departure fee is my cleaning fee.  As far as the $80 booking fee, it will basically cover the PPI charges for a 2 week stay at my condo.  Since the majority of my rentals are for 7 days, it is double what I would have to pay if guest charges the stay on a card.  This way it is a better inducement for the guest to pay the balance with a check or EFT.  I will say I usually waive this booking fee for my Canadian guests who use a card, since they don't have the option of paying with EFT and getting canadian checks is a pain.  Once I tell guests it will save them $80 to pay with a check, most are happy to do this.

              • beachbumz Active Contributor 542 posts since
                Jan 21, 2013
                Currently Being Moderated
                Apr 8, 2013 3:05 PM (in response to beachgal)
                Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

                Thanks for passing along the Visa monthly fee. Uhhhh, swlinphx, you may have just convinced me to go over to the dark side.

                • beachgal Contributor 92 posts since
                  Apr 22, 2012
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Apr 8, 2013 3:25 PM (in response to beachbumz)
                  Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

                  If Yapstone isn't passing this $7 VISA fee thru, I may look at it as well, but not sure for that small amount it is worth the hassle to switch.

                  • evan Active Contributor 664 posts since
                    Jan 12, 2013
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Apr 8, 2013 7:03 PM (in response to beachgal)
                    Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

                    Since when is pay pro charging a flat $7 a monthly charge to use visa cards. I know visa charges $7 if you use but not a monthly fee.As i've said i collect a $500 check and never cash unless damage. i'm at about 60 renters doing this and never one cent taking. for damage.. sure one ay i'll get hit for $200 or 4300 but the lack of aggravation of not having to cash 30 plus checks a month and refund the money is worth it

                    • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
                      Aug 30, 2011
                      Currently Being Moderated
                      Apr 9, 2013 2:16 AM (in response to evan)
                      Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

                      Since when is pay pro charging a flat $7 a monthly charge to use visa cards. I know visa charges $7 if you use but not a monthly fee.

                      I'm confused about this $7 fee.  We are never charged this by Visa, PayPal, Yapstone or anyone.

                      • beachgal Contributor 92 posts since
                        Apr 22, 2012
                        Currently Being Moderated
                        Apr 9, 2013 7:15 AM (in response to swlinphx)
                        Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

                        Actually the fee can vary - that is what I was charged based on my my monthly gross sales volume.  The PayPros notice says Visa will charge the FANF fee based on volume and PayPros passes it along to the user.  I may look at Yapstone - but since I don't have a large credit card volume - may not bother.

              • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
                Aug 30, 2011
                Currently Being Moderated
                Apr 9, 2013 2:13 AM (in response to beachgal)
                Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

                beachgal:  It seems instead of dealing with an $80 additional charge to the already sizeable cleaning fee and 12% tax you could seem less like you're "nickel-and-diming" them by simply charging them the credit card fee for each transaction they use a credit card with.  That way guests are only paying for the numer of transactions and exact amount they choose to charge.  Charging the guest the fee is definitely legal and we never pay any fees.  Also, all our guests can get by without paying fees as well if they wish.  And no, there is never any monthly fee with VRP/Yapstone, and we always have the money in our bank within about 3 to 4 days after each transaction.  I think some techniques people are using to cover fees seem more financially burdensome to the guest than just charging the fee if and when it is taken.

                 

                I am glad we didn't go with PayPros/PPI if they are charging monthly fees, be it $24.95 as sapphiresteve said or $7.50 or whatever.  They had approached us by phone and we almost did but luckily Reservation Manager was just being launched using VRP/Yapstone.  We also stay away from FlipKey Payments due to their considerable booking fee and the fact that they currently don't have a plan to receive the funds upon payment; you have to wait until after the guest checks in.

                 

                My point is, there is a way to give guests an option of paying cash, personal/business check, money order/cashier's check, e-check or by credit card without them either paying the fee at all or with them being able to recover the fee.  As an owner or manager, you do not have to pay any transaction or monthly fees.  I'm not sure why so many choose to.

                • beachgal Contributor 92 posts since
                  Apr 22, 2012
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Apr 9, 2013 7:21 AM (in response to swlinphx)
                  Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

                  swlinphx: Very good points - at one point credit card companies would not allow you to charge more for taking credit cards - and my procedure was based on working around that.  I really was not certain when this changed and haven't adjusted my procedures accordingly.  Could you tell me how you word that you charge the guest the credit card fees on your listing/website? I'm open to changing my antiquated ways - but would want wording that sounds good to guests. I'm sure my procedures could be improved upon, but they actually work well for me and I stay fully booked year round - so "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

                  • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
                    Aug 30, 2011
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Apr 10, 2013 3:58 AM (in response to beachgal)
                    Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

                    I'm in AZ, but even when our guests pay a surcharge they get it back.  I have had no issues with this as I explain how they can get the fee back in many ways.  A lot of times it is just the fact that when they pay the deposit by card they get that back (including fee) when they check out, assuming no loss or damage withholdings.

                     

                    There are ways I offer every customer to avoid and/or recover the fee and I make that clear in writing and over the phone.  We have never had anyone balk or decline, as they could simply send a check for the rental fee.  But even for the initial deposit or last-minute bookings where that is not possible I explain it all and there is never an issue.  Those who wish simply pay upon arrival and I refund the total with fee.  I just did that a few hours ago in fact for a woman who gave me a bank cashier's check and I also did that a week ago for a woman who gave cash upon check-in.  They both got their refunds within hours and were happy.  So we have never paid a processing fee and neither have any customers that chose not to and opted for recovery. Win-win. 

                    • beachgal Contributor 92 posts since
                      Apr 22, 2012
                      Currently Being Moderated
                      Apr 10, 2013 6:39 AM (in response to swlinphx)
                      Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

                      swlinphx: After reading your comments and those of others, I think I will stop taking EFT for the initial deposit, since I really have to wait over a week to be sure the week is booked.  I'll just take credit card for the deposit to hold the dates, and the balance by check or EFT.  In lieu of charging a damage deposit, I place a $500 preauthorization hold on the guests' credit card which is released after the check out inspection - there are no fees for doing this and I don't have to refund any checks, etc. - so quite easy.  Is anyone else handling damage deposits this way?

                      • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
                        Aug 30, 2011
                        Currently Being Moderated
                        Apr 10, 2013 11:57 PM (in response to beachgal)
                        Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

                        Ah, there may be the only advantage of PPI/PayPros over VRP/Yapstone.  While I love that VRP charges no monthly fee, returns all fees upon refund and has no 60-day refund deadline like PayPal, VRP won't let you put a credit card "hold" on an account.  In fact, even if you use PPI with Reservation Manager I still don't think they let you do that (unless you use PPI directly).


                        That's no big deal for us because we charge the damage deposit and customers see that it's been charged and are motivated to get it back (in other words, be mindful with the rental).  Furthermore, the fee doesn't matter as they get the fee refunded along with the damage deposit! 

  • beachbumz Active Contributor 542 posts since
    Jan 21, 2013
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 9, 2013 12:34 PM (in response to squirt2)
    Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

    I'm pretty interested in your wording as well, swlinphx. With the last two people I've dealt with, they negotiated a cash price. It was in every single thing they signed. As it comes time to pay, they're balking. I point out the contract, conversation, etc. and they say they don't care. They pay by contract, I pay the fee. I let them go as guests. Not fun.

  • mlbmaine Active Contributor 910 posts since
    Mar 2, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 9, 2013 1:20 PM (in response to squirt2)
    Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

    Effective January 27, 2013, merchants may now charge a fee for customers who pay with a credit card in 40 states.  It is still illegal in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma, and Texas.  I am not sure, but I believe that if the renter lives in one of these 10 states, an online merchant cannot charge the fee for paying with a credit card.  In addition, if an online merchant is assessing the fee, they must notify potential customers on their website that if they pay by credit card, they will have to pay the surcharge.  The surcharge must also be itemized and shown on the customer's receipt.   Charging a customer the surcharge is only permitted for paying with a credit card.  It is not permitted if the customer pays with a debit card.

    • beachgal Contributor 92 posts since
      Apr 22, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 9, 2013 4:23 PM (in response to mlbmaine)
      Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

      Thanks mlbmaine.  I knew there were changes in the law recently but did not know the details.  My property is in Florida so I will continue to use my discount for cash guests.  Below is pasted from VISA's website:

       

      Merchant Surcharging – Understanding Payment Card Change

      What is a Surcharge?

      A payment card surcharge is a fee that a retailer adds to the cost of a purchase when a customer uses a payment card.

      Changes to Surcharging Fees in the United States

      Beginning January 27, 2013, merchants in the United States and U.S. Territories will be permitted to impose a surcharge on consumers when they use a credit card.

       

      Historically Visa has not permitted retailer surcharging, but allowing surcharging was a key provision required by merchants to settle long-standing litigation brought by a class of retailers in 2005.

       

       

      What This Means for Consumers

      • Consumers will pay an additional fee when they use their credit card at retailers that decide to surcharge.
      • Consumers should be aware there are limits to the amount merchants can surcharge. *
      • Retailers are permitted to apply a surcharge to only credit card purchases and cannot impose a surcharge for purchases made using a debit or prepaid card.
      • If retailers intend to impose a surcharge on credit card purchases, they are required to notify customers before customers make an actual purchase at the store entrance and at the point of sale – or in an online environment, on the first page that references credit card brands.
      • Retailers must disclose surcharge fees on every receipt – both in store and online. Carefully review receipts where checkout fees should appear.

       

       

      Retailers Can Offer a Discount for Cash and Check Purchases

      Retailers can encourage their customers to use other forms of payment, such as cash and checks, and can discount for PIN debit and cash and checks.

       

      States Where No Surcharge Laws Protect Consumers

      Surcharging isn’t allowed everywhere. Currently, there are laws limiting surcharging in: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas. Consumers who are subjected to a surcharge or checkout fees in states where they may be prohibited from surcharging may want to report the retailer to their state attorney general’s office.

       

  • beachbumz Active Contributor 542 posts since
    Jan 21, 2013
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 9, 2013 6:21 PM (in response to squirt2)
    Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

    Thank you for the added information. I have found this thread to be very helpful.

  • globalnomadz New Member 3 posts since
    Sep 22, 2013
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 22, 2013 11:00 AM (in response to squirt2)
    Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

    The fees being charged owners by PayPros are excessive. For example, I was charged $125 to return a $200 deposit for an international renter!  And I just got a bill from PayPros for $250 -- and I had no renters!

     

    Everyone who starts out with PayPros likes the convenience, but the only way to increase your income is to limit costs. You already have to pay taxes on the money you receive. THEN, you have to pay PayPros.

     

    if you add up all the fees they are ridiculous. Last year it cost us thousands (of real $$s) for only a dozen transactions. 

     

    So we began to use PayPal, which doesn't charge the excess fees.

    • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
      Aug 30, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Sep 22, 2013 11:17 AM (in response to globalnomadz)
      Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

      Globalnomadz, I heard the same thing about PayPros from many others and I'm glad I decided not to use them and to go with Reservation Manager instead, processed thru VRP.  Although we still use PayPal for the back-end and overall management and account transfers, did you know that Reservation Manager offers even lower fees than PayPal and allows full refund of the fee too when processing a refund and, unlike PayPal, there's no 60-day limit on refunds.

      • globalnomadz New Member 3 posts since
        Sep 22, 2013
        Currently Being Moderated
        Sep 22, 2013 11:42 AM (in response to swlinphx)
        Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

        We received the recommendation to use PayPros from Homeaway, not randomly. So now they're recommending their own system.  What are the actual fees, and what is the purported (actual) advantage over PayPal? Clearly, the fees I have been charged by PayPros border on loanshark levels

        • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
          Aug 30, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          Sep 22, 2013 12:27 PM (in response to globalnomadz)
          Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

          HomeAway used to use PayPros instead of VRP before they started with Reservation Manager a couple years ago.  Now once again you have the option of using either with Reservation Manager (or even without Reservation Manager).  With VRP, Reservation Manager is just 2.5% domestic and 3.75% int'l. (lower than PayPal) and again, you get your fee back if you process a refund, and there is no refund deadline (not just up to 60 days for a refund).

           

          Of course, if you know what you're doing you can get by with neither the owner/manager or guest paying any fees as I have explained many times on the forums, but that's another topic.

    • sage Community All-Star 966 posts since
      Jul 4, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Sep 22, 2013 1:02 PM (in response to globalnomadz)
      Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

      I was charged $125 to return a $200 deposit for an international renter!  And I just got a bill from PayPros for $250 -- and I had no renters!

      Have you contacted PayPros to ask about these charges?  What you describe certainly sounds like an error.  I don't think you would be charged anything to refund the deposit, although the 3.75% that PayPros would have charged when the payment originally was made would not be returned to you.  I know some people have reported problems, but I have found their customer support people to be quick and helpful the few times I contacted them.

    • beth HomeAway Employee 1,011 posts since
      Jan 20, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Sep 23, 2013 9:40 AM (in response to globalnomadz)
      Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

      Hi globalnomadz,

       

      You can contact VacationRentPayment with any questions at 1-866-210-6106, 7 days per week, 7am – 11pm CT. Email support is available at HomeAway@VacationRentPayment.com.

       

      Thanks,

      Beth

      Community Manager

  • wendy Contributor 49 posts since
    Mar 6, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 25, 2013 8:31 AM (in response to squirt2)
    Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

    Getting to the discussion late and am a bit confused... can someone explain the "who's who" of this discussion?

    Who is and what are the differences between:

    PPI

    PayPros

    VacationRentPayments

    Reservation Manager

     

    Any help appreciated...

    Wendy

    • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
      Aug 30, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Sep 25, 2013 12:20 PM (in response to wendy)
      Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

      The HomeAway Group, under their former program a few years ago, used to use PayPros (the same as PPI) for their payment processing.  When they introduced Reservation Manager, which also included payment processing, they switch to VRP (Vacation Rent Payment), a company that FlipKey also used.  Later, they re-introduced PayPros/PPI as an alternate option to use with Reservation Manager for payment processing.  In my experience and research, VRP is the cheapest alternative.

    • sage Community All-Star 966 posts since
      Jul 4, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Sep 25, 2013 12:39 PM (in response to wendy)
      Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

      Wendy -

       

      PPI is Payment Processing Inc.  PayPros is a registered trademark of PPI and is the name by which PPI now goes.  PayPros processes credit card and e-check payments and may be used in conjunction with Reservation Manager (RM) or independently.  If using it independently, an owner may create an invoice and have it sent to the traveler who then pays directly to/through PayPros, or may use the virtual terminal function to manually enter a traveler's credit card information.  PayPros does not work with "Book It Now" but, to the best of my knowledge, otherwise can do everything VacationRentPayments does, and both charge identical fees.

       

      VacationRentPayments is the other credit card payment processor that can be used in conjunction with RM.  I am not aware of an ability for an owner to create an invoice and have it sent directly to the traveler (If I am wrong, someone please correct me), but its website does speak of a virtual terminal so it may be possible manually to enter information to process a charge.  If using the "Book It Now" function one must use VacationRentPayments to process the payments.

       

      RM is HA's system to manage reservations including scheduling payments and generating the requests to travelers for payment.  Payments may be made by credit card, debit card, or e-check using either PayPros or VacationRentPayments.  It has the advantages of keeping track of payments so an owner does not risk forgetting to send an invoice and makes it easy to keep information on bookings in a single place.  It's drawback is that the owner loses some control over the process: it sends invoices for payments (other than payment of the deposit) closer to the date they are due than what I would prefer and the owner cannot change that timing, and the owner cannot customize language of the payment requests (I do not like the possibly undue familiarity of addressing the traveler by first name; if Mitt Romney was going to rent from you it would send an invoice saying 'Dear Willard'). 

      • wendy Contributor 49 posts since
        Mar 6, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        Sep 25, 2013 1:07 PM (in response to sage)
        Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

        Thank you both for the explanation of the different companies being used. I'm in the middle of deciding if I want to change merchant accounts and the above was a bit confusing...

        • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
          Aug 30, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          Sep 25, 2013 2:10 PM (in response to wendy)
          Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

          Wendy, to better assist, what issues or factors are you debating in making your decision or concern you the most?

          • wendy Contributor 49 posts since
            Mar 6, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated
            Sep 25, 2013 2:47 PM (in response to swlinphx)
            Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

            Fees, fees, fees.... so I was considering going with another company Vacation Rent Payment as they have only the 2.5% with no monthly fees. Are people having problems with them as with PayPros? I'm currently with ecomm and love their customer service but the fees are a problem. I'm not interested in being dependent on HA for my payment system as I want to keep my independence from my ad sites (as much as possible).

            Thank you for any advice you care to give.

            • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
              Aug 30, 2011
              Currently Being Moderated
              Sep 25, 2013 3:11 PM (in response to wendy)
              Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

              I use VRP with Reservation Manager, but you can use them separately if you want.  They have the lowest fees around and you get the funds immediately if approved with good credit.  I just find it simple to use them together because you have to enter all the reservation info within your Dashboard (reservation manager) anyway so processing the payment can all be done internally in the same place, plus they send out reminders that I don't have to.  But if the fees are the same with VRP either way that is good.

               

              Personally, I haven't found anything else with lower fees and that refunds the fee upon processing a refund and has no time limit on refunds.  Of course, the way I use the system no one has to pay the fee if they don't want to, so that is really the most important thing in the long run.

      • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
        Aug 30, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        Sep 25, 2013 3:04 PM (in response to sage)
        Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

        It's drawback is that the owner loses some control over the process: it sends invoices for payments (other than payment of the deposit) closer to the date they are due than what I would prefer and the owner cannot change that timing

        Funny, because I was thinking it was a bit too soon.  It sends a notice that the payment is "now due" a full week in advance.  That is plenty of time to pay by credit card or mail a check.  I actually thought that was a little too soon to say "now due".

         

        ...and the owner cannot customize language of the payment requests (I do not like the possibly undue familiarity of addressing the traveler by first name; if Mitt Romney was going to rent from you it would send an invoice saying 'Dear Willard').

        What do you mean by this?  It addresses the guest by whatever name you enter in the reservation details when you set it up.  You can only customize the language of the message itself in the initial payment request of course.

        • sage Community All-Star 966 posts since
          Jul 4, 2012
          Currently Being Moderated
          Sep 25, 2013 2:19 PM (in response to swlinphx)
          Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

          What do you mean by this?  It addressed the guest by whatever name you enter in the reservation details

          Okay, you are right it will not use a name that the owner does not enter.  However it insists on addressing the guest by first name.  If my guests send me emails which they sign with only their first name I will send emails using their first name as the greeting.  But until then I think it is inappropriate to presume that a guest wants to be on a first name basis with an owner.  I suppose one could get around this by entering the salutation one wants to use in the space for first name (e.g., "Mr. Romney" rather than either Willard or Mitt).

          • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
            Aug 30, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated
            Sep 25, 2013 3:06 PM (in response to sage)
            Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

            Yeah, you could do that if you felt more comfortable.  It has never been an issue with me as I always speak to my guests by phone before actually taking payment or booking so we have already spoken to each other by first names.

             

            However, whenever you call customer service for a business they give their first name and they call you by yours usually, so I never saw it as an issue either way.  It promotes friendliness and a more personal feel.

            • wendy Contributor 49 posts since
              Mar 6, 2011
              Currently Being Moderated
              Nov 3, 2013 9:34 AM (in response to swlinphx)
              Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

              Am curious is people are still happy with vacationrentpayments? was reading some nightmare stories about them on another thread and am hoping all the glitches have been worked out? have been away on several trips and now getting back to making the change before the new year and the busyness starts up again with renting.

              • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
                Aug 30, 2011
                Currently Being Moderated
                Nov 3, 2013 11:06 AM (in response to wendy)
                Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

                I haven't noticed any changes or glitches with VRP in a long time, only some minor tweeks needed with HomeAway's Reservation Manager software, but that's not on VRP's end.  Can you elaborate on the reported issues you're referring to or what your concerns were?

                • wendy Contributor 49 posts since
                  Mar 6, 2011
                  Currently Being Moderated
                  Nov 3, 2013 11:24 AM (in response to swlinphx)
                  Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

                  Thanks for your response, I'm trying to post with links but an error message keeps coming up, I was reading older posts about the subject and people were having some major problems, just do a search... my main question is are people having problems when they have an independent account?

                  • swlinphx Senior Contributor 2,192 posts since
                    Aug 30, 2011
                    Currently Being Moderated
                    Nov 3, 2013 11:47 AM (in response to wendy)
                    Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!

                    What links are you trying to post?  I've been on here a long time and have read a lot of the posts having to do with Reservation Manager and VRP vs. other payments services like PayPros/PPI and PayPal and I don't remember any glaring issues at all, or else I'd know because I've been using the service regularly all this time.  In order for me to respond suitably you'll either have to tell me the specific issues you are referring to (maybe it wasn't VRP but RM or one of the others?) or else provide the link or something.  I have no way of knowing what you're referring to otherwise.

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