May 9, 2012 1:29 PM
Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!
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I am thoroughly disgusted with PPI. I thought I would never use them again, but thought I'd give them another shot. Once again, they are sitting on my customer's payment and they told me it could take 10 to process into my account. What do I need to do to get some action out of those people? My customer is waiting for the payment to clear and deposit into my account to make sure I received the payment. It is sitting out in never never land though. Can anyone help me please?
Squit, I assume you meant to say 10 days to process your payment. WOW!! That's incredible, and certainly NOT the industry standard. What does your contract with PPI state regarding this?
debj
They told me they don't actually have that in writting, that it could take 7-10 days for an Echeck to process. They told me that it is posted on their website in the agreement. I don't remember reading that, and I'm sure it's in very small print so it's easy to miss. It's very frustrating. I'm going to use PayPal from now on if I have to do a credit card or Echeck transaction. I've never had a problem with PayPal, even internationally.
I just got off the phone
with PayPros customer service, James (supervisor) and Adrienne. I am
extremely dissatisfied with the lack of concern about my first echeck
experience.
My VRBO client wanted to
book using echeck for my vacation rental on 12/05/2012.
I created the booking for $1529.45. The client came back and told me that they
weren't able to use echeck. So I contacted VRBO they said after doing some
research that PayPros had forgotten to set up echeck on my account. It took two
more days to fix this and my VRBO client was finally able to submit
echeck payment on 12/12/2012. I have documentation from VRBO that this was
supposedly set up when I called in last September.
I waited and didn't see the money deposit into my account by 12/14/2012, so I called VRBO. They got PayPros on the line, James was his
name and he told me that it takes longer for the echeck money to be deposited
into my account. That it can take up to 8 business days. Therefore, the money
would not arrive in my bank account until 12/21/2012
or 12/24/2012.
I waited patiently and
still did not see the money deposited as told on 12/24/2012.
So I called PayPros again. I got a hold of Adrienne. She verified that the
money was pulled from my clients bank account on 12/14/2012.
She said that it could take 7-10 business days. Although I explained to her
that I was told by a previous PayPros person 8 business days. She said that
there was nothing she could do, since you use a third party person to
processing the echecks. So I asked her to get them on the line line. She did but
once I was added to the line, she had already discussed and all I got the your
third party vendor was the same 7-10 business days. No one could help me.
I asked Adrienne to let
me speak to a supervisor and she eventually came back on the line and told me
she was passing me to James. I said oh, that was the name of the supervisor I
had spoken to previously, 12/14/2012, who had told me 8 business days. Once James
got on the line, he acted like he never spoke to me and told me that. (Now why
in heavens name would I make up a random 8 days? In fact your online
advertisement as of today says 3 days to process echecks.) I asked for
him to help me he said there was nothing he could do. I asked who do I write to
complain about this really lousy customer service. He gave me your email and
address.
I had plans for using
this money for last minute Christmas shopping for my 3 boys and now I will have to
face them tomorrow morning with this PayPros echeck
explanation....that they won't even understand.
I will also be forwarding
this email to VRBO and calling them, since they are the ones that hired you to
provide me excellent customer service.
Michelle Jerome called me just a minute ago and basically hadn't read the email below. Proceeded to patronize me for using echeck when if I had used my credit card payment, she could have helped me. Then she said if I was unhappy that I she would be glad to cancel my account.
Is this the kind of service you provide? Especially on Christmas Eve
?
You should be very ashamed.
All I want is some help with receiving my money in time for Christmas
.
Very shameful as a company. What's wrong with you people? No heart.
I believe that this is known as "the float".
Steve
Yes. PayPros told me they didn't have my money. Then one last suggestion for me to check with my bank.
When I called the bank they said they didn't have any pending postings. That all ACH recheck postings come in
Jackie ![]()
That all the normal processing times for an recheck is 3 bus days. So PayPros is way off from providing even adequate service.
Jackie ![]()
I have totally quit using PayPros since my last transaction with them. You are correct about their nonchalant attitudes and insincere responses. I am sorry for your experience and I truly do hope you get your transaction resolved soon. Stick with PayPal. I do think the small difference in fees is worth the satisfaction I have ALWAYS experienced with PayPros.
Squirt2
From: "jaggrand@q.com" <community@homeaway.com>
To: squirt2 <mreimann2002@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!! - Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!
Seek Advice. Get Answers. Optimize your Vacation Rental Business.
Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!! created by jaggrand@q.com in Deposits, Payments, Fees - View the full discussion
That all the normal processing times for an recheck is 3 bus days. So PayPros is way off from providing even adequate service.
Jackie
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Two things that stood out for me when reading this:
1) We avoid e-checks, at least for initial deposit payment. We actually had VRP/Yapstone turn this option off and deselected it as the preferred method in our Dashboard preferences.
2) Is there a reason you are using PPI/PayPros over VRP/Yapstone? We used to use PayPal for everything but switched to Reservation Manager with VRP and have had no issues at all in over a year. I heard some dubious things about PPI/PayPros. We still use PayPal for all our internal banking and income distribution and transfers however. Is there a reason you did't choose VRP and why you didn't give them a chance before reverting to PayPal exclusively. Have you been using Reservation Manager with PPI or just them directly?
I have totally quit using PayPros since my last transaction with them. You are correct about their nonchalant attitudes and insincere responses. I am sorry for your experience and I truly do hope you get your transaction resolved soon. Stick with PayPal. I do think the small difference in fees is worth the satisfaction I have ALWAYS experienced with PayPros.
Squirt2
From: "jaggrand@q.com" <community@homeaway.com>
To: squirt2 <mreimann2002@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!! - Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!!
Seek Advice. Get Answers. Optimize your Vacation Rental Business.
Re: Problems with PPI and PayPros AGAIN!!! created by jaggrand@q.com in Deposits, Payments, Fees - View the full discussion
That all the normal processing times for an recheck is 3 bus days. So PayPros is way off from providing even adequate service.
Jackie
Reply to this message by replying to this email -or- go to the message on Community
Start a new discussion in Deposits, Payments, Fees by email or at Community
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I have only used PayPros a couple of times but have received the run-around on every transaction. Customer service is very bad! Somehow I have linked my reservations manager payment processor to them. They are charging 4.5% or more but somehow I seem to be unable to unlink them. The new processor charges only 2.5% which is even better than PayPal but I can't seem to make the switch :-(
Give HA/VRBO customer service a call. They should be able to help.
Mike
Wow, 4.5% is ridiculous (especially if that is the domestic fee). VRP (Yapstone) charges 2.5% (domestic) and 3.75% international.
One thing that is confusing with VRP though is Canadian transactions. Half the time they are charged the international fee and at other times they are not. In fact I just issued a refund to a 3-month guest. Although they were not charged the international fee upon deposit payment, it was considered international upon refund of that same deposit (same person, same address, etc.). This really makes it difficult to calculate in processing fees for Canadian transactions.
I use PPI (but not through reservation manager). My credit card charges process in 1 day, but EFT transactions don't deposit until 7-12 days usually. It is not a problem for me, as I require the balance of funds at least 45 days prior to arrival date - but I can see where that might be frustrating for some. I find that many guests aren't comfortable with EFT - as they don't want to give you access to their checking account. I usually take credit card for booking fee and have guest pay balance by mailing me a check - so I really have very few fees - works for me.
wow i was about to start using echecks versus regular checks, 7-12 days forget that. I've never had any problems with checks. i'm going to keepdoing things the old fashioned way. but when i have used pay pro's everytime the payment has been in checking account within 24 hrs
We don't encourage e-checks either, whether via Reservation Manager or PayPal, etc. Their only advantage is no postage stamp, delivery time or trip to the bank. That is nice, but the "check" still has to clear. We require credit card payment for all deposits to book (don't hold dates without the payment) but that is refundable when they check-out, and so is the fee. We encourage guests send a personal check, money order or cashier's check for the full rental since the amount is more (therefore the fee would be more) and they don't get that back. Many just want the convenience of paying via credit card for the rental or are from Canada or some place it is harder to draw in USD so they opt for a credit card. Either way, we always provide a way for them to recover the fee.
Wow - did not realize that. They advertise up to 3 business days! I'm starting to get alot of people saying I want credit cards for all transactions and specifically Reservation Manager. They say VRBO is advertising it as safer. So NOW I'm having to explain why I use PPI instead of Reservations Manager and WHY it's just as safe. Are you guys getting this and how do you explain (or if you explain) why you use PPI? I'm about at the point of saying, "I can use and darned vendor I want and I'm not explaining my policy with you."
beachbumz - I haven't really had many ask to use RM - while I do have it as an option on my listing (to get the badge), I don't use it and have not been requrested to by a guest. Guest may not even realize I'm not using it, or they don't really care? I prefer my own system. As far as credit cards, I allow them for the initial deposit, but discourage use for the balance by waiving an $80 booking fee for cash and checks. I ask for credit card or EFT for the deposit but after more thought, I may just eliminate the EFT option. PPI charges me $5 for EFT and 2.5% for credit cards. My deposit is $280 to hold dates - so $5 EFT per booking or $7 for credit card and I get my money within 24 hours.
Hi beachgal, How do you handle the $80 booking fee? Do you have it as part of the original fee, then discount it? In this scenerio, I'm concerned if it's part of the original fee, it artifically inflates the pricing. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
beachbumz. I put on my listing and my website my weekly rates. Below that I state that 12% tax and $95 departure fee added. I also state $80 booking fee added to rate (waived for cash or check payments). The vast majority of my guests pay the deposit by credit card and then mail me a check for the balance (some pay the balance by EFT). This way my rates aren't inflated by the $80 fee, but it is clearly stated. So if someone decides to pay the balance with credit card I just add the $80 booking fee and it doesn't cost me anything.
So you have a statement that says, I charge a $1000 a week, plus %12 and $95 departure fee (cleaning). So you then say an additional $80 booking fee is added to the rate, which is waived for cash or check payments. So if I were a guest booking online, I'd still see the $1000 as the base, then the $85 noted as a separate cost? In other words not $1085 plus tax and departure cleaning. My concern if that that if the $85 is on the front end, built into the initial price, no one would touch my initial pricing. I bundle everything, with the exception of the CC fees. It's in my contract, in my reservation confirmation, etc., that the guest pays all cc and wire transfer fees, but I'm still getting guests saying "I know I told you I'd pay cash, but now I'm not, and you pay the fees or else!" I'm trying how to figure out how to say, "Fine" politely.
The reason I list the $80 booking fee separately is twofold (1) it does not artificially inflate my prices on the frontend thereby scaring potential guests away from my listing; and (2) to avoid charging the guest extra for using a credit card, which some merchant card companies specifically prohibit in their agreements. You can look at my listing #149430 if you want to see how I have it set forth and it is on my website as well www.thebeachvacationshop.com
Hi beachgal, I haven't looked at the sites, but I will. I like the way you're handling this and I believe I will follow suit. I assume you have this in your contract as well.
I do have it in my contract - I'd be happy to share my contract with you if you want to private message me.
I had one a few weeks ago who wanted RM for the same reason -- he even quoted the "safest way to pay" slogan. I explained that using a credit card would cost him 2-3% more -- that did not make him happy. He then said he needed to use a credit card because he might have to cancel just before check in!!! Needless to say, I explained my house was probably not a good fit and sent him packing.
Just out of curiosity beachgal (or anyone else that knows), what is the advantage of using PPI directly vs. using either themn or VRP with Reservation Manager? Don't you have to pay some kind of monthly fee with PPI/PayPros? Do they offer refunds with no deadline and refund the fee too?
I don't know about others, but when I started with PPI/PayPros, it was endorsed by VRBO/HA and was the best I could find. I pay a $24.95 monthly fee in addition to a percentage. My biggest complaint is that I can't understand the statement that they send every month, but I have some minor complaints as well.
Steve
SapphireSteve, may I ask what makes you continue with them since they are charging you a sizeable monthly fee in addition to processing charges? VRP/Yapstone has the same processing fee with no monthly charges and unlimited returns, including return of fee. Even PayPal would be cheaper than paying $24.95/month.
When I started accepting credit cards in 2008, That was the deal if you used PPI through VRBO, and it was a good deal..
I have stayed with the system largely because of inertia, which is is encouraged by many of the posts on this thread.
Steve
steve - unless I'm really missing something, I don't think there is a monthly fee if you sign up through VRBO. There are two ways you can sign up: through their website, or through a portal with VRBO. To the best of my knowledge, this is the case. I really hope sage and evan weigh in. I received some information through them, so they might be able to provided some added info that I don't have.
swlinphx - First I love reading your posts - they are so educational (and sometimes amusing). With PPI I haven't had to pay a monthly fee, just 2.5% for all cards and $4.99 for EFT transactions. That being said, starting with this months' statement VISA has now added a $7 per month "Fixed Acquirer Network Fee (FANF)" and this is billed on my PayPros (PPI) statement. PPI says this is a pass-thru fee from VISA - has everyone else gotten this fee with other service providers?
Hi beachgal... first off, thanks for even reading my posts, LOL.
I had heard about this monthly Visa fee months ago and had inquired, but it turned out neither PayPal nor VRP/Yapstone whom I use with Reservation Manager are passing it on to the customer, which I was relieved to know. It turns out it is up to the processing company whether to pass along the fee, and I guess PayPros (PPI) decided to.
A couple questions regarding your response to beachbumz: What is a "departure fee"; is that basically what you call your cleaning fee? Also, how or why did you come up with the amount of $80?
swlinphx: The departure fee is my cleaning fee. As far as the $80 booking fee, it will basically cover the PPI charges for a 2 week stay at my condo. Since the majority of my rentals are for 7 days, it is double what I would have to pay if guest charges the stay on a card. This way it is a better inducement for the guest to pay the balance with a check or EFT. I will say I usually waive this booking fee for my Canadian guests who use a card, since they don't have the option of paying with EFT and getting canadian checks is a pain. Once I tell guests it will save them $80 to pay with a check, most are happy to do this.
Thanks for passing along the Visa monthly fee. Uhhhh, swlinphx, you may have just convinced me to go over to the dark side.
If Yapstone isn't passing this $7 VISA fee thru, I may look at it as well, but not sure for that small amount it is worth the hassle to switch.
Since when is pay pro charging a flat $7 a monthly charge to use visa cards. I know visa charges $7 if you use but not a monthly fee.As i've said i collect a $500 check and never cash unless damage. i'm at about 60 renters doing this and never one cent taking. for damage.. sure one ay i'll get hit for $200 or 4300 but the lack of aggravation of not having to cash 30 plus checks a month and refund the money is worth it
Since when is pay pro charging a flat $7 a monthly charge to use visa cards. I know visa charges $7 if you use but not a monthly fee.
I'm confused about this $7 fee. We are never charged this by Visa, PayPal, Yapstone or anyone.
Actually the fee can vary - that is what I was charged based on my my monthly gross sales volume. The PayPros notice says Visa will charge the FANF fee based on volume and PayPros passes it along to the user. I may look at Yapstone - but since I don't have a large credit card volume - may not bother.
beachgal: It seems instead of dealing with an $80 additional charge to the already sizeable cleaning fee and 12% tax you could seem less like you're "nickel-and-diming" them by simply charging them the credit card fee for each transaction they use a credit card with. That way guests are only paying for the numer of transactions and exact amount they choose to charge. Charging the guest the fee is definitely legal and we never pay any fees. Also, all our guests can get by without paying fees as well if they wish. And no, there is never any monthly fee with VRP/Yapstone, and we always have the money in our bank within about 3 to 4 days after each transaction. I think some techniques people are using to cover fees seem more financially burdensome to the guest than just charging the fee if and when it is taken.
I am glad we didn't go with PayPros/PPI if they are charging monthly fees, be it $24.95 as sapphiresteve said or $7.50 or whatever. They had approached us by phone and we almost did but luckily Reservation Manager was just being launched using VRP/Yapstone. We also stay away from FlipKey Payments due to their considerable booking fee and the fact that they currently don't have a plan to receive the funds upon payment; you have to wait until after the guest checks in.
My point is, there is a way to give guests an option of paying cash, personal/business check, money order/cashier's check, e-check or by credit card without them either paying the fee at all or with them being able to recover the fee. As an owner or manager, you do not have to pay any transaction or monthly fees. I'm not sure why so many choose to.
swlinphx: Very good points - at one point credit card companies would not allow you to charge more for taking credit cards - and my procedure was based on working around that. I really was not certain when this changed and haven't adjusted my procedures accordingly. Could you tell me how you word that you charge the guest the credit card fees on your listing/website? I'm open to changing my antiquated ways - but would want wording that sounds good to guests. I'm sure my procedures could be improved upon, but they actually work well for me and I stay fully booked year round - so "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
I'm in AZ, but even when our guests pay a surcharge they get it back. I have had no issues with this as I explain how they can get the fee back in many ways. A lot of times it is just the fact that when they pay the deposit by card they get that back (including fee) when they check out, assuming no loss or damage withholdings.
There are ways I offer every customer to avoid and/or recover the fee and I make that clear in writing and over the phone. We have never had anyone balk or decline, as they could simply send a check for the rental fee. But even for the initial deposit or last-minute bookings where that is not possible I explain it all and there is never an issue. Those who wish simply pay upon arrival and I refund the total with fee. I just did that a few hours ago in fact for a woman who gave me a bank cashier's check and I also did that a week ago for a woman who gave cash upon check-in. They both got their refunds within hours and were happy. So we have never paid a processing fee and neither have any customers that chose not to and opted for recovery. Win-win. ![]()
swlinphx: After reading your comments and those of others, I think I will stop taking EFT for the initial deposit, since I really have to wait over a week to be sure the week is booked. I'll just take credit card for the deposit to hold the dates, and the balance by check or EFT. In lieu of charging a damage deposit, I place a $500 preauthorization hold on the guests' credit card which is released after the check out inspection - there are no fees for doing this and I don't have to refund any checks, etc. - so quite easy. Is anyone else handling damage deposits this way?
Ah, there may be the only advantage of PPI/PayPros over VRP/Yapstone. While I love that VRP charges no monthly fee, returns all fees upon refund and has no 60-day refund deadline like PayPal, VRP won't let you put a credit card "hold" on an account. In fact, even if you use PPI with Reservation Manager I still don't think they let you do that (unless you use PPI directly).
That's no big deal for us because we charge the damage deposit and customers see that it's been charged and are motivated to get it back (in other words, be mindful with the rental). Furthermore, the fee doesn't matter as they get the fee refunded along with the damage deposit! ![]()
I'm pretty interested in your wording as well, swlinphx. With the last two people I've dealt with, they negotiated a cash price. It was in every single thing they signed. As it comes time to pay, they're balking. I point out the contract, conversation, etc. and they say they don't care. They pay by contract, I pay the fee. I let them go as guests. Not fun.
Effective January 27, 2013, merchants may now charge a fee for customers who pay with a credit card in 40 states. It is still illegal in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma, and Texas. I am not sure, but I believe that if the renter lives in one of these 10 states, an online merchant cannot charge the fee for paying with a credit card. In addition, if an online merchant is assessing the fee, they must notify potential customers on their website that if they pay by credit card, they will have to pay the surcharge. The surcharge must also be itemized and shown on the customer's receipt. Charging a customer the surcharge is only permitted for paying with a credit card. It is not permitted if the customer pays with a debit card.
Thanks mlbmaine. I knew there were changes in the law recently but did not know the details. My property is in Florida so I will continue to use my discount for cash guests. Below is pasted from VISA's website:
A payment card surcharge is a fee that a retailer adds to the cost of a purchase when a customer uses a payment card.
Beginning January 27, 2013, merchants in the United States and U.S. Territories will be permitted to impose a surcharge on consumers when they use a credit card.
Historically Visa has not permitted retailer surcharging, but allowing surcharging was a key provision required by merchants to settle long-standing litigation brought by a class of retailers in 2005.
What This Means for Consumers
Retailers Can Offer a Discount for Cash and Check Purchases
Retailers can encourage their customers to use other forms of payment, such as cash and checks, and can discount for PIN debit and cash and checks.
Surcharging isn’t allowed everywhere. Currently, there are laws limiting surcharging in: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas. Consumers who are subjected to a surcharge or checkout fees in states where they may be prohibited from surcharging may want to report the retailer to their state attorney general’s office.
Thank you for the added information. I have found this thread to be very helpful.
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