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354474 Views 1,450 Replies Latest reply: Jan 13, 2014 6:49 PM by grace300 RSS Go to original post 1 ... 88 89 90 91 92 ... 97 Previous Next
  • Contributor 175 posts since
    Feb 22, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,335. Apr 30, 2012 10:18 AM (in response to crazyblogger)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    crazyblogger wrote:

     

    ... I believe we will be seeing the full hand next year.

    I received a reply to an email from Sen. Roz saying the same thing.

     

    We need to disarm them before the next session.

     

    Here's an idea: if the main vacation rental advertising sites, like VRBO and FlipKey were to put a consistent place for "Hawai'i Tax ID" on all Hawaiian vacation rental pages, maybe as push-button that went directly to the DoTax's lookup page for that ID (with a "What's This" next to the push-button that explained to potential guests that Hawai'i is trying to make sure all taxes are being paid and forwarded to the state)... this would give the folks at DoTax an easy/bot-able way to assure all rentals, at least on the most used sites, had GE and TA tax ID's.  Note that I have looked-up some of the owners I suspect are renting illegally (due to zoning), and indeed, they don't have "TA" under their "Tax Type" in the DoTax record.

     

    Come next session, DoTax won't be able to complain that they can't find an easy way to determine tax cheats.  The PM's won't be able to say "that didn't work, so we have to force them to PM's/caretakers".

     

    So, my thinking is (and it may be unpopular): push the main rental sites we use to help bolster the law, and in doing so, give Roz and the PM's less ammunition to use against us next session.

  • jwe Contributor 284 posts since
    Feb 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,336. Apr 30, 2012 10:38 AM (in response to blackburied)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    @Crazzyblogger - please post the Roz email

     

    We need to back RBOAA as the primary organization to defend property owners

    and the local people who service them from attempts to impose onerous

    regulations, take away constitutional rights or violate the NAFTA treaty.

    If these bills were to pass, many local people would lose income, visitor

    count and tax collection would decline.

     

    But this should not just be a defensive operation.  RBOAA should point out

    ethical lapses by property managers, hotel owners and legislators who

    support these onerous requirements, are doing for their own very selfish

    reasons.

    We are collecting data on known and suspected ethical lapses by these "usual

    suspects", and that information can be sent to info@RBOAA.org

     

    Please do not post any accusations on a public web site.   We cannot use the

    unethical practices that the pm's used.  We need to verify the data before

    making it public. 

     

  • Contributor 175 posts since
    Feb 22, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,337. Apr 30, 2012 11:16 AM (in response to jwe)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    jwe wrote:

    ...

    Please do not post any accusations on a public web site.  ...

     

    Was this in response to something I said?

  • jwe Contributor 284 posts since
    Feb 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,338. Apr 30, 2012 11:23 AM (in response to blackburied)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    no,  not at all.  It was a solicitation to gather info, but a request not

    place it in a public domain - rather the send it to RBOAA.

     

    I apologize for any confusion I caused.

  • Contributor 49 posts since
    Feb 21, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,339. Apr 30, 2012 11:47 AM (in response to blackburied)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    Since our tax information is already on the state’s website, why would they want us to publish it again? What is the point? The state already has the ability to find tax cheaters.

  • Contributor 175 posts since
    Feb 22, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,340. Apr 30, 2012 1:07 PM (in response to crazyknits)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    crazyknits wrote:

     

    Since our tax information is already on the state’s website, why would they want us to publish it again? What is the point? The state already has the ability to find tax cheaters.

    I had thought that earlier too:


    blackburied wrote:

     

    I've looked at properties that were obviously breaking zoning laws... and it's pretty apparent on their VRBO/FlipKey sites... they show very limited information, no maps, low prices, incorrect GE/TAT percentage; it amazes me they can't/don't easily catch these folks.

    But, was corrected on various points:

    kailani wrote:

     

    I wouldn't assume anything from VRBO listings. Some homeowners do not list addresses publicly because there are people who rob vacant vacation homes. They can see via the calendar if it is rented and then go scope out the place. I took our address off ads for that reason (we had parts of our gate stolen when no one was at the house). Some list taxes, some don't. Doesn't mean they don't pay them. Some property owners pay the tax and do not pass it on to renters which is legal in Hawaii (this is what we do for a guest who stays 2 weeks or more). The state could simply write letters to every owner with an ad and ask for verification of their tax id and then run a check to see if they are paid up. Sheesh, they could hire interns to do this. I maintain that by making it harder to rent properties many owners are simply going to dump them either through regular or short sales, something the real estate market here does not need right now.

    Looking at folks I think might be illegal, their web site and VRBO web sites have no names or addresses on them for which to lookup on the DoTax database (which could be for reasons stated above).  Given I know their names, I can search the database, and they have a GE tax setup, but not a TA, and their web pages show daily rates.

     

    So, I can assume that such folks would have to sign up for TA taxes to appear legal, but now the DoTax can see they have a TA tax number and either aren't paying it, or, in information shared with the county, will realize they aren't zoned for it.

     

    So, yes, I can see that this tax ID method will make it much easier to find folks not zoned or not paying taxes... if VRBO/FlipKey play along and make the tax ID easy to find.

  • Contributor 26 posts since
    Mar 24, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,341. Apr 30, 2012 1:29 PM (in response to blackburied)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    If the State wants to insure a higher TVR compliance rates in a way that is equitable and protects owners from identity fraud,  one option is to create a simple PRIVATE online registration system.

     

    TVR owners could log on and "register" their vacation rental with all the pertinant data.

     

    • Physical address of property

    • Owners name & contact details

    • Loca "agent" details

    • Hawaii Tax ID number

    • etc, etc

     

    The State could then issue a "TVR registration number" which we could post on our webiste and/or advertisements etc.

     

    Tax and/or Zoning officals could look up TVR registration numbers and get all data is one click. Ads without a TVR reg number listed could be investigated further, as needed.

     

    While TVR registration numbers could be copied and used on other ads etc, it would not reveal any of the owners private data to the thief, and it woudl be very simple for the Tax Department to cross check and verify, etc.

     

    While I am agianst more regualtion in general, I believe this would be a fair option in the face of the far more drastic options being proposed.


    As many have already stated I think we have to be very pro-active in heading off future damaging rules and legislation. A comprehensive registion system such as this woudl go a long way towards shutting dowm the PM's arguements against no-compliance with existing laws.

  • Contributor 26 posts since
    Mar 24, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,342. Apr 30, 2012 1:41 PM (in response to islandadventures)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    PS - I know many propery owners would oppose a "TVR registration system" becuase they are renting homes or cottages or rooms in areas not zoned for vacation rentals. While I sympathize with these owners, and supoort a path to legaizing and/or license their rentals, we have to be careful NOT to get caught in the cross-hairs of that discussion.

     

    As mentioned many times, illegal vacation rentals in residential neighborhoods are a hot button in Hawaii and the real estate collapse has only made things worse. A lot of locals are fired up and demandign action.

     

    As tax paying owners of legal vacation rentals we need to separate ourselves from illegal rentals and non-tax paying owners, and promote or positive contributions to the Hawaii Tourism Industry, Real Estate Market, and local economy in order to protect our investments.

  • New Member 4 posts since
    Apr 13, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,343. Apr 30, 2012 4:55 PM (in response to islandadventures)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    islandadventures wrote:

     

    PS - I know many propery owners would oppose a "TVR registration system" becuase they are renting homes or cottages or rooms in areas not zoned for vacation rentals. While I sympathize with these owners, and supoort a path to legaizing and/or license their rentals, we have to be careful NOT to get caught in the cross-hairs of that discussion.

     

    As mentioned many times, illegal vacation rentals in residential neighborhoods are a hot button in Hawaii and the real estate collapse has only made things worse. A lot of locals are fired up and demandign action.

     

    As tax paying owners of legal vacation rentals we need to separate ourselves from illegal rentals and non-tax paying owners, and promote or positive contributions to the Hawaii Tourism Industry, Real Estate Market, and local economy in order to protect our investments.

    I certainly DO NOT sympathize with illegal vacation rentals. They are breaking the law and don't deserve a license or permit. They ARE the reason the State Legislature has any ammunition to harass us! I think illegal vacation rentals taint the entire vacation rental industry in Hawaii. They are unfair competitors who pay significantly lower property tax rate than resort-zoned properties. I can sympathize with neighbors who live next to vacation rentals in a non-resort communities. I would not want a vacation rental as my neighbor. I can see how it could be problematic. I like having neighbors who I know and can socialize with. In my opinion, we should help the State and County governments locate and prosecute these businesses. Hopefully the proposed bill will do that. Only then will we be left alone.

  • New Member 14 posts since
    Apr 5, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,344. Apr 30, 2012 6:37 PM (in response to jwe)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    If you have proof that licensed property managers are acting illegally or unethically then I would recommend turning them into the DCCA.  If you look at prior complaints, there are not that many against property managers and to be honest I have not heard of many acting illegally or unethically in my area.  Most complaints are linen issues, commission percentage, not screening guests, etc, and none of that falls under unethical or illegal.

     

    I will be interested to see what is about to happen now that they will be able to see what non-licensed people are the on island contact for owners.  I don't know, but I am interested to see.

     

    Now that I have seen everything I think the Hawaii will do something over time.  If not, I think they are idiots.  I think the PMs recommendations were a little stiff, but I get the overall issues. 

     

    1)  They are saying that they needed to be licensed to manage property regardless if they are collecting rents or not.  Housekeepers, etc are doing this unlicensed.

     

    2)  Vacation rentals are a multi million $ industry there.  Most would argue you need an industry of that size needs to be controlled.  WIth us taking over, the state is loosing control. 

     

    I like the ideas being thrown around are good and I think by next year we will possibly come up with a solution. 

  • jwe Contributor 284 posts since
    Feb 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,345. Apr 30, 2012 7:52 PM (in response to crazyblogger)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    who is dcaa?

     

    We have not yet determined the appropriate course of action we will take against those pms who are acting unethically or putting out misinformation but we will take action after legal consultation.

    There is more to it than you have mentioned. 

     

    What does the State need to be in control of?  state run hotels?.  I stayed in one in Czecholosvakia in the  1970's and would not recommend it.

     

    The Federal tax code does not require business owners to put their tax id in any business ads.  Do you think the IRS has also lost control?

     

    I do not think the bill says what you think it says.  I did not see anything about licensing of housekeepers.

     

    Sen  Baker says she is for economic diversification and achieving living wage for those in her district.  What could provide better economic diversification and enhance wages than off-island property owners who pay above average wages to construction workers, maintenance people and cleaning people while encouraging potential visitors to come to Hawaii every day.

     

    Since we are trying to do the same thing she says she is.  We should be one happy family

  • Contributor 40 posts since
    Feb 25, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,346. Apr 30, 2012 8:15 PM (in response to jwe)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    What does the state need to be in control of?  I have owned an apartment

    building in another state for 20 years.  I have never had the state try  to

    exercise any control over how I run my apartments, who works there, who

    manages them, etc.

     

    If the state gets its taxes, what more does it really need?

     

    Consumer protection?  The market will take care of that.  Don't keep your

    condo up, double book, etc., etc., and see how fast you are out of

    business.  The market will put individual property owners out of business

    much faster than it can control property managers handling dozens or

    hundreds of properties and not taking proper care of them.

     

    The trouble with PM's isn't as much that they act illegally or unethically,

    though some may, but rather that they have no vested interest in the

    properties they  manage.  They're not going to take the time to converse

    individually with guests.  They have no reason to try to negotiate the best

    deal possible without losing a potential renter.  They have no reason to

    worry about the condition of a particular condo.  None that I've dealt with

    when I was a renter was available 24/7 as I am for my guests.  And for all

    that, they charge exorbitant fees.

     

    The state has no business saying someone else who has no vested interest in

    my investment is required to manage it for me!

  • Contributor 26 posts since
    Mar 24, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,347. Apr 30, 2012 9:15 PM (in response to jwe)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    Sen  Baker says she is for economic diversification and achieving living wage for those in her district.  What could provide better economic diversification and enhance wages than off-island property owners who pay above average wages to construction workers, maintenance people and cleaning people while encouraging potential visitors to come to Hawaii every day.

     

    This is a point we need to drive home in the coming weeks and months !!!!

     

    While the big management firms like Outrigger and Aston certainly have their place, my experience staying in the units they manage is that their hosuekeeping (and even some maintenance staff) appear to be minimum wage+ type employees.

     

    Owner managers have to pay a higher wage becuase we can't employ (and directly supervise) our housekeepers and maintenace staff as full time employees....and we are willign to pay more for to receive a higher level of service (when we are off-island).

  • Contributor 49 posts since
    Feb 21, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,348. Apr 30, 2012 9:41 PM (in response to islandadventures)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    I talked with my representative’s office. The vote on HB 2078 is tomorrow as is the vote on SB2947. Let’s see what happens.

     

     

     

    crazyknits

  • New Member 14 posts since
    Apr 5, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,349. May 1, 2012 12:39 AM (in response to crazyknits)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    @ crazyknits  maybe I am tired, but looks like SB2947 isn't relevant anymore.

     

    My point was that I am sure the state has controls on the hotels in some way.  Given that the vacation rental inudstry is growing globally along with rent by owners I suspect it is a matter of time before they try to get a grib on us.  Just my opinion.

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