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356416 Views 1,450 Replies Latest reply: Jan 13, 2014 6:49 PM by grace300 RSS Go to original post 1 ... 75 76 77 78 79 ... 97 Previous Next
  • New Member 9 posts since
    Apr 7, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,140. Apr 10, 2012 8:22 PM (in response to blackburied)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    The issue here for Google is not a "Restraint of Trade" violation, but this particular restriction by the State of Hawaii for them and for us is a violation of the "Privilages and Immunities Clause" of the US Constitution.

     

    For those interested in a clear explanation of this "Privilages and Immunities Clause" see:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privileges_and_Immunities_Clause

    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Privileges+and+Immunities

     

    They are of course violating other clauses of the US Constitution in all of this - like the Equal Protection Clause and the Commerce Clause. They are violating the "Restraint of Trade" rights of local residents with their "1:1 Rule".

     

    Blackburied is not getting ahead of himself/herself.

     

    Prepare for legal action.

     

    If you lived in Hawaii long enough or went to school there, you would understand well their attitude towards mainlanders and not be surprised by any of this.

     

    Sorry, but as I said before, they are blowing Aloha smoke in all your faces.

  • Contributor 40 posts since
    Feb 25, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,141. Apr 10, 2012 9:19 PM (in response to wsquare)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    The Institute for Justice (Google it) is a non-profit organization that

    legally  fights for people who have been deprived of economic justice.  Our

    case should be one they would be interested in.

  • jwe Contributor 284 posts since
    Feb 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,142. Apr 10, 2012 9:41 PM (in response to blackburied)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    RBOAA has a great constitutional law attorney.

    I do no know what the cost will but It will be much less than doing nothing.  It will depend on how long it takes the state to fold its tent, which will be based on political considerations and not financial considerations.  The politicians will be playing and paying with other peoples money.

     

    I won a property tax appeal in another state and even though the town did not have a leg to stand on appealed that decision to the state supreme court - simply because they could.  It was a total waste of tax payer money, but not a dime of the politicians money was spent.  In the end we settled out of court  at a valuation of $10 k more than we originally requested.

  • sodamo Contributor 260 posts since
    Nov 5, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,143. Apr 10, 2012 10:29 PM (in response to jwe)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    So, winning this on constitutional grounds, changing nonresident to resident is better for you how?

    Somehow I don't think so.

  • jwe Contributor 284 posts since
    Feb 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,144. Apr 10, 2012 10:39 PM (in response to sodamo)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    I do not understand your question.  Better than what?  Certainly it's better than not taking action.

     

     

    from my iPad

  • sodamo Contributor 260 posts since
    Nov 5, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,145. Apr 10, 2012 10:53 PM (in response to jwe)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    If RBOAA prevails, and the law is applied to residents as well as non residents, how does that lessen its impact on you?

  • Contributor 49 posts since
    Feb 21, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,146. Apr 10, 2012 11:16 PM (in response to sodamo)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    It has to do with my sense of fairness. I am an honest person and I treat all people how I like to be treated….with respect. I do not cheat so I will not be impacted. I will find a way to be completely compliant, that is my nature. I must insist all others are treated equally, that is all. I think there should be one set of rules for everyone. What is wrong with that?

  • Contributor 93 posts since
    Feb 20, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,147. Apr 10, 2012 11:21 PM (in response to crazyknits)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    Absolutely agree with you,crazyknits!! I am the same way - that is why these laws annoy me so much. It seems that most of us that are being targeted are educated and overly conscientious, and we just want everyone to be treated the same. I see all kinds of problems in the way the taxes are handled in Hawaii and it has nothing to do with non-residents.

  • Contributor 26 posts since
    Mar 24, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,148. Apr 11, 2012 2:25 AM (in response to cruisin9)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    The forced use of property managers, or anythng else that adds significantly to the overhead of running a vacation rental affects ALL owners the same way......

     

    REDUCED PROPERTY VALUES!!!

     

    on-island or off-island, property manager or owner-manager, the value of your TVR will go down in direct proportion to any mandated incease in operatign costs.

     

    Look at the price of residential condos vs those zoned for vacations rentals in Hawaii. Equivalent units zoned for short term vacation rental have a much higher market value based on the income they can produce. Reduce the income potential of a TVR and you reduce the market value.

     

    Booms and busts adside, the undelying value of ANY piece of Real Estate is the rental income it can produce.

  • jwe Contributor 284 posts since
    Feb 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,149. Apr 11, 2012 4:57 AM (in response to sodamo)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    That would only be one of several points of challenge.

    And I suspect that they would withdraw the discriminatory regs rather than subject voters to them

     

     

    from my iPad

  • jwe Contributor 284 posts since
    Feb 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,150. Apr 11, 2012 5:11 AM (in response to crazyknits)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    There may not be a sufficient number of possible agents on the island to serve us all 1:1

     

    The regs are intended to squeeze us out by making this into a game of musical chairs.

     

    Honesty was never the issue.

      Competition and their power to eliminate or reduce it is. 

     

    Everyone better reserve their chair (agent) and hope that someone else has not already reserved  the same one.

  • New Member 10 posts since
    Mar 3, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,151. Apr 11, 2012 8:40 AM (in response to jwe)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    What I fear is that the legislators could care less if property owners are forced to sell. It appears that Maui especially is in a position to benefit from increased foreign tourism, and with the expansion of their airport and increased air routes directly to the islands predicted, forcing off-island owners to sell and force down the price of available rental units would work in favor of the big real estate property management firms to acquire new units at a bargain price. How convenient for them

  • Contributor 175 posts since
    Feb 22, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,152. Apr 11, 2012 9:04 AM (in response to sodamo)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    sodamo wrote:

     

    So, winning this on constitutional grounds, changing nonresident to resident is better for you how?

    Somehow I don't think so.

    If it were fair, they'd never have voted in favor of the bill (nor even proposed it in the first place).

     

    What they believe they've found is an untapped goldmine of owners who pay taxes yet can't vote, and will have a very difficult time dispensing of their business in the state once the additional burden is imposed... an easy target for higher taxes (in fact, we should expect more to hit us, until they realize that this will effect their economy negatively... but that's at least a year away, and the damage will have been done, unless we can win in the courts).

     

    If this were to include a substantial number of residents (other than the small number of off-island but in-state owners), who can and do vote, you can bet they wouldn't pass it.

     

    If it were made fair, there would be no law.  But don't worry, they are not going to do that

  • sodamo Contributor 260 posts since
    Nov 5, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,153. Apr 11, 2012 12:21 PM (in response to blackburied)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    I respectfully disagree.  If you read my posts almost from the beginning, I believe this has been a game of divide and conquer with the end result being applied to all owners. Now, there is an official non resident group. I think at best, resident voters might affect a small handful of elections, no where a meaningful number. The whole VR topic gets whipped into a flurry by highlighting the worst cases to get local support. Has the landlord-tenant language been challenged before? Don't know, but I guess they aren't worried about it, they just remove the non resident language and apply rest of bill to everyone and achieve their end game. Too bad we lost focus.

  • Contributor 49 posts since
    Feb 21, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,154. Apr 11, 2012 12:54 PM (in response to sodamo)
    Re: Hawaii Trying to Kill VRBO

    We still have the opportunity to influence the outcome of this. My personal attempt will be to talk to as many legislators as possible pointing out that these bills will harm many small businesses and possibly put many of them out of business and that leads to less tax revenue in a tax strapped state. I want to focus on the finance committee. If the House and Senate do not agree, no compromise bill will emerge and the bill will die. Long term, the issue comes up again so we need to stress how these bills as currently drafted destroy small business and get the small business proponents to help us. We need to show how we are helping the economy in Hawaii, how we are providing a great service the tourist trade. We need to convince the legislators we are providing a valuable service to the state and they need to protect us, not harm us. The telephone is a great communication vehicle for non- resident owners. E-mail gets dumped and you never know if your message was ever received. As each of us visits Hawaii, schedule a day to talk to the legislators. Lobby By Owner

     

     

     

    Crazyknits

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